'bridging bumps'

[Crnr2Crnr]

can someone please explain to me how a 136/137 'bridges' bumps so much better than a 128/129 ?

we're talking like 3-4" of additional track on the ground right?

ok, I can see if we're talking about going from a 121 to a 146... but 3-4" bridges better

someone do the math on this one for me...

[jdsky]

Here's my take.  When I started riding a 137" back in 05' nearly every sled on the trail back then was a 121".  Now that most sleds are 137" or 129" there is no advantage and the whole bridging the bumps thing is no longer....

[Crnr2Crnr]

Just now, jdsky said:

Here's my take.  When I started riding a 137" back in 05' nearly every sled on the trail back then was a 121".  Now that most sleds are 137" or 129" there is no advantage and the whole bridging the bumps thing is no longer....

right

I can see the 136/137 accelerating and braking better due to more lugs/studs on the ground... but apparently some folks (maybe these are newbs?) seem to think there's an enormous amount of difference in the length of the skid/rails and they have some magical bump bridging abilities.

in SX it was easy to see that when Cat went from 121 to 128, and then again from 128 to 136 that the hole shot and acceleration were superior, then Poo & Doo wisely followed suit.

   

   

[Deephaven]

Traction helps bridge bumps.  Most people are idiots, but in a spot where you need to hook to float the machine better then the one that hooks will "bridge" as you can accelerate and get more weight up and off the ground.

[Crnr2Crnr]

36 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Traction helps bridge bumps.  Most people are idiots, but in a spot where you need to hook to float the machine better then the one that hooks will "bridge" as you can accelerate and get more weight up and off the ground.

but if you're going, let's say 35mph on a 129 or 137 and holding the throttle somewhat steady while going over 1ft'ers... it likely doesn't matter, right?

 

[Fireball 440]

13 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

but if you're going, let's say 35mph on a 129 or 137 and holding the throttle somewhat steady while going over 1ft'ers... it likely doesn't matter, right?

 

No in fact it might be worse just riding your ass through the whoops.

 

[Deephaven]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

but if you're going, let's say 35mph on a 129 or 137 and holding the throttle somewhat steady while going over 1ft'ers... it likely doesn't matter, right?

 

Why the fuck would you do that?  Pinch it.

 

[SayatodaU.P.eh?]

I’ve had the exact same sled built as a 121 and a 137. No difference other than traction. 
 

Now, 121 to my 144, yes there was a difference. The 121 was still a better trail sled though. 

[Deephaven]

I would rather trail ride my 144 than a 121.  I hate spinning.  If you can't hook up there isn't enough track to make the ride fun.  On trail cornering speed is limited solely by vision so I don't understand the shorties at all.  The 144 is a fair amount of work and with a 1.75 a 136/7 can hook up as well as my 144 so my next machine will be coupled and a bit shorter.

[Fireball 440]

On trail cornering speed is also affected by push on a 144. Then add longer carbides, a fair amount of work as you said. Stud up a 121 and hook up all over, even on ice.

My wife loved her 136 Renegade, but she likes her short track better.

[mnstang]

The whole bridging bumps thing is bullshit and has been bullshit ever since someone came up with that theory.  Just another dumb internet talking point

[Fireball 440]

8 minutes ago, mnstang said:

The whole bridging bumps thing is bullshit and has been bullshit ever since someone came up with that theory.  Just another dumb internet talking point

It was and I went along with it for years until I switched back to a short track a few years ago. 

[CFM]

Have to say, my wifes 06 Fuse eith M10 when i set suspension stiff/soft enough to just bottom on the biggest of bumps (not jumps) goes over most trail junk like nothing. Really amazing for ‘old tech.” I do hsve to set it back for her weight after I borrow it for a day. Just takes 5 minutes or so.

[SayatodaU.P.eh?]

3 hours ago, CFM said:

Have to say, my wifes 06 Fuse eith M10 when i set suspension stiff/soft enough to just bottom on the biggest of bumps (not jumps) goes over most trail junk like nothing. Really amazing for ‘old tech.” I do hsve to set it back for her weight after I borrow it for a day. Just takes 5 minutes or so.

The M-10 was great until it was pushed hard. It also has zero weight transfer. If the trails are just chatter, and you’re into just cruising, I agree with you. My wife loves her M-10 equipped Classic too. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by SayatodaU.P.eh?

[Deephaven]

4 hours ago, Fireball 440 said:

On trail cornering speed is also affected by push on a 144. Then add longer carbides, a fair amount of work as you said. Stud up a 121 and hook up all over, even on ice.

My wife loved her 136 Renegade, but she likes her short track better.

On trail cornering speed is the single dumbest argument I have ever heard.  Even more off than bump bridging.  I've never seen a corner on trail here in MN or WI where the sled is what has slowed me down, it is always vision.  Sure it is more work to hold the same line, but even with all the extra work and slowing down because I can't see the morons coming the other way I have to wait like hell for everyone.  So if you made all the trails one way saving the sight problem, it'd still be pointless as I'd just have to wait more.  

[Fireball 440]

 stop, slow and wait at corners?

I usually stay on my side of the trail and ride through it. A short sled does this quicker & easier than a long sled.

[Deephaven]

No.  I ride 1mi then wait a few minutes for whomever I am with to catch up.  At the corners you HAVE to slow down because of all the jackasses that ride on the wrong side.  Vision is always the limit of my speed, has nothing to do with the sled in corners.  If the trails were all one way then perhaps it could be helpful, but I'd still be waiting so not sure why making it easier to corner so I can wait more has any benefit.

 

[Sled_Hed]

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

No.  I ride 1mi then wait a few minutes for whomever I am with to catch up.  At the corners you HAVE to slow down because of all the jackasses that ride on the wrong side.  Vision is always the limit of my speed, has nothing to do with the sled in corners.  If the trails were all one way then perhaps it could be helpful, but I'd still be waiting so not sure why making it easier to corner so I can wait more has any benefit.

 

I ride a cat so there isn't any outrunning of the group for me.

[Fireball 440]

I'm usually in the trees so I'm the one your waiting for 

[mnstang]

3 hours ago, Deephaven said:

No.  I ride 1mi then wait a few minutes for whomever I am with to catch up.  At the corners you HAVE to slow down because of all the jackasses that ride on the wrong side.  Vision is always the limit of my speed, has nothing to do with the sled in corners.  If the trails were all one way then perhaps it could be helpful, but I'd still be waiting so not sure why making it easier to corner so I can wait more has any benefit.

 

I do not share your opinion on this but yes if you don't care about having a slow trail sled then the long track should work fine for you.  It still won't be bridging any bumps though.

I'd probably find other people to ride with.  As slow as you ride and you still have to stop every mile for minutes, are you riding with walkers?  Lol fuck sounds lame af 

[Crnr2Crnr]

On 5/2/2021 at 4:34 PM, Deephaven said:

Why the fuck would you do that?  Pinch it.

 

it was a hypothetical ? to assert my initial point

13 hours ago, Deephaven said:

I would rather trail ride my 144 than a 121.  I hate spinning.  If you can't hook up there isn't enough track to make the ride fun.  On trail cornering speed is limited solely by vision so I don't understand the shorties at all.  The 144 is a fair amount of work and with a 1.75 a 136/7 can hook up as well as my 144 so my next machine will be coupled and a bit shorter.

the topic is subjective, in a ditch or running farm fields all day long I'd likely want a different setup than what works well here.  I like a 'little bit' of track spin at times before it hooks up, but we each utilize what's going on under us differently.  trail cornering speed is also subjective, there's a zillion different kinds of corners from tight braking hair pins to long fast sweepers, in the tight stuff the shorter skids and a good front end bite just flat out works.  knowing how much you liked the Pro-X I would have imagined the Rave specs and being uncoupled would have been right up your alley. 

9 hours ago, mnstang said:

The whole bridging bumps thing is bullshit and has been bullshit ever since someone came up with that theory.  Just another dumb internet talking point

it's funny enough to warrant this passionate discussion

9 hours ago, Fireball 440 said:

It was and I went along with it for years until I switched back to a short track a few years ago. 

spread the word, to Textron who completely abandoned the 128/129 market. (cough)

9 hours ago, CFM said:

Have to say, my wifes 06 Fuse eith M10 when i set suspension stiff/soft enough to just bottom on the biggest of bumps (not jumps) goes over most trail junk like nothing. Really amazing for ‘old tech.” I do hsve to set it back for her weight after I borrow it for a day. Just takes 5 minutes or so.

I wonder if part of the perception of the longer skids being 'better' also came with the advent of better quality shocks coming standard on sleds.  would be interested to take a 121/129/137 sleds out with shitty old shocks, and see what shakes out.

5 hours ago, Deephaven said:

On trail cornering speed is the single dumbest argument I have ever heard.  Even more off than bump bridging.  I've never seen a corner on trail here in MN or WI where the sled is what has slowed me down, it is always vision.  Sure it is more work to hold the same line, but even with all the extra work and slowing down because I can't see the morons coming the other way I have to wait like hell for everyone.  So if you made all the trails one way saving the sight problem, it'd still be pointless as I'd just have to wait more.  

one way trails, good luck pitching that to a club.  

4 hours ago, Deephaven said:

No.  I ride 1mi then wait a few minutes for whomever I am with to catch up.  At the corners you HAVE to slow down because of all the jackasses that ride on the wrong side.  Vision is always the limit of my speed, has nothing to do with the sled in corners.  If the trails were all one way then perhaps it could be helpful, but I'd still be waiting so not sure why making it easier to corner so I can wait more has any benefit.

 

personally speaking, I gauge my trail performance upon how well the sled is working in two ways.  first being, how quickly can I consistently ride a fast (yet safely* logical) pace in tight quarters, and the second is how much abuse can my body and the sled take while maintaining control doing so.... safely*.

 

safely* - for myself and anyone I might encounter coming the opposite direction    

3 hours ago, Sled_Hed said:

I ride a cat so there isn't any outrunning of the group for me.

you should try Ramstadland, because everyone there rides a Cat

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

I do not share your opinion on this but yes if you don't care about having a slow trail sled then the long track should work fine for you.  It still won't be bridging any bumps though.

I'd probably find other people to ride with.  As slow as you ride and you still have to stop every mile for minutes, are you riding with walkers?  Lol fuck sounds lame af 

maybe he's riding with friends and family, or kids, idk?  everyone has their own perception of a 'brisk' pace... mileage may vary.  

does anyone make a 132" conversion, I want to be in the middle. 

 

[CFM]

Because of some steep and  narrow trails we have some short sections of one way trails. Fucking awesome. Wish they where longer.

and yeh, you’ve all heard it from me, our trails you can out any machine into the woods or over a cliff thru a corner. There is a reason why not many turbo sleds out here. Not many longer sleds either. 

Corner2cirner and the other cat590 guys would love a few days out here. You think ckf and Ginger ? Many can’t stand it. Lololol

From my place, up ovrr the castle, into and thru Scrub Iaks...good times.

Heading north, there is a newer trail that bypasses a bunch of rail road track and goes around colemans pit and towards fryeberg side of Conway. Very winding,  all turns, but  fast when groomed. A workout from here for sure but awesome. Again, those that like rail trails or etc would hate it. Lazy asses. Lol.

Edited May 4, 2021 by CFM

[Sled_Hed]

7 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

does anyone make a 132" conversion, I want to be in the middle. 

 

You could swap in a 133" from a 90's poo sks..

[Deephaven]

13 hours ago, mnstang said:

I'd probably find other people to ride with.  As slow as you ride and you still have to stop every mile for minutes, are you riding with walkers?  Lol fuck sounds lame af 

Lame as fuck is someone who needs a short track to take corners quickly.  If you can't outride your eyes on a 144 you are slow as fuck.  As for other people to ride with, it isn't that I am riding with guys with no experience.  Outside of one of my riding buddies, who is amusingly the fastest, the rest have over 50,000mi of experience and are far from slow.

15 hours ago, Sled_Hed said:

I ride a cat so there isn't any outrunning of the group for me.

Hmmm, Cat riders I ride with are the ones I wait for the most. 

13 hours ago, mnstang said:

It still won't be bridging any bumps though.

Of course not, but that farce isn't as absurd as the cornering one.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Deephaven

[burndog]

where I ride light&tight in the "twistys" is #1 & the only way to go! MOOCHO FUNNO long as ya stay between the trees!