Doug Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Snowgoer has an article where USSA and Derby are split over what should be the premier class. Last year it seemed there was an agreement with a direction towards Formula III but with Covid and the season as it was looks like the groups are now going in different directions now. Haven't really followed this much but I know when I was more involved I always liked Formula III because you could identify with the brands that were racing. Now with Champ 440 its almost all Wahl brothers chassis and a 440 motor which no manufacture produces. https://snowgoer.com/news/ussa-derby-split-over-champ-440-formula-iii/29425/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 15 hours ago, Doug said: Snowgoer has an article where USSA and Derby are split over what should be the premier class. Last year it seemed there was an agreement with a direction towards Formula III but with Covid and the season as it was looks like the groups are now going in different directions now. Haven't really followed this much but I know when I was more involved I always liked Formula III because you could identify with the brands that were racing. Now with Champ 440 its almost all Wahl brothers chassis and a 440 motor which no manufacture produces. https://snowgoer.com/news/ussa-derby-split-over-champ-440-formula-iii/29425/ The folks that love the 440's are the die hard ovals guys but they also wonder why ovals numbers are dwindling - If you dont progress you end up dead in racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, fortune46x said: The folks that love the 440's are the die hard ovals guys but they also wonder why ovals numbers are dwindling - If you dont progress you end up dead in racing. Tim Benders V-Max's and Steve and Mike Houle's sleds both Polaris and Ski-Doo were impressive to watch. Remember the stories when Tim Bender would have a track plowed out on one of the lakes by Eagle River and do testing at night with only truck headlights lighting up the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, Doug said: Tim Benders V-Max's and Steve and Mike Houle's sleds both Polaris and Ski-Doo were impressive to watch. Remember the stories when Tim Bender would have a track plowed out on one of the lakes by Eagle River and do testing at night with only truck headlights lighting up the track. The glory days, Fortunate enough to have gotten to know all three, its fun when you can get them talking about the older stuff but its rare they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, fortune46x said: The glory days, Fortunate enough to have gotten to know all three, its fun when you can get them talking about the older stuff but its rare they do. Got to know Steve a little when he started up Hot Seat and we were up there a couple times dyno testing and tested some of his products at home. All 3 very talented guys still today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 One of my old customers was a wrench for hot seat. The wild stories he has about Steve and those early sno cross days are epic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 I would prefer to see stock based sleds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 22 minutes ago, racerdave said: I would prefer to see stock based sleds. literally 2 of the 3 race directors this weekend said if they weren't racing on weekends they weren't doing their part for sales , it was interesting to get their insight into the impact on racing on sled sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) There would be nothing better than to see a Polaris, Ski-Doo, Arctic Cat and the one guy with Lynx on the track. Edited April 28, 2021 by Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 9 hours ago, fortune46x said: The folks that love the 440's are the die hard ovals guys but they also wonder why ovals numbers are dwindling - If you dont progress you end up dead in racing. They also love their classes. Nothing better then watching the two guys who will drag out the Champ Sprint II Jr. 400 Single Fan 1985 and newer IFS Liquid-Cooled class sled to run once a year and God for bid you ax their class at Eagle River! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune46x Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 11 hours ago, racinfarmer said: They also love their classes. Nothing better then watching the two guys who will drag out the Champ Sprint II Jr. 400 Single Fan 1985 and newer IFS Liquid-Cooled class sled to run once a year and God for bid you ax their class at Eagle River! That vintage stuff is cool - I have been meaning to go to the firecracker for years now but it never works out with my schedule. The offroad side is seeing the same thing with formula 4x4 and classix - they are the original type classes for short course but the problem is as a series you cannot afford to give them the track time for 3 vehicles that show up to the races that aren't at Crandon. It doens't make financial sense , and then when you have to cut laps later in the day because you're running out of daylight in your premier classes - the writing is on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 12 hours ago, fortune46x said: That vintage stuff is cool - I have been meaning to go to the firecracker for years now but it never works out with my schedule. The offroad side is seeing the same thing with formula 4x4 and classix - they are the original type classes for short course but the problem is as a series you cannot afford to give them the track time for 3 vehicles that show up to the races that aren't at Crandon. It doens't make financial sense , and then when you have to cut laps later in the day because you're running out of daylight in your premier classes - the writing is on the wall. I went to a local vintage ice oval race this year and there were several classes on the schedule that had none or 1 sled in them. That group would at least 2-3-4 classes at a time to make it interesting. Out of 44 classes/races scheduled, I think they ran in the 30ish range before finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 not that my or anyone replying to this threads opinion matters to the roundy round crew... so, imo Championship Class should be for a 'rules limited' class that invest into the sleds which consistently turn the fastest laps with more than 10 competitors in their heat races of less than 600cc. the other class might be a premier class with 'current manufacturer consumer available' based 600 engines and ice oval permitted alterations to a 'consumer available' based chassis. it's utterly hilarious, few people base their new sled purchases off how well their favorite brand does in Snocross or Ice Oval racing. that said, Cat guys still have Cross Country Racing locked in on the decade old chassis for now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 in addition to that, I'd be willing to wager that most folks base their new sled purchases more from... 1. a stupid gauge 2. colors and graphics / spring check options 3. best performing big bore 2S so that's another colossal marketing fail for Cat on the aforementioned levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 29, 2021 Author Share Posted April 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, racinfarmer said: I went to a local vintage ice oval race this year and there were several classes on the schedule that had none or 1 sled in them. That group would at least 2-3-4 classes at a time to make it interesting. Out of 44 classes/races scheduled, I think they ran in the 30ish range before finals. That's almost like a NSSR event. Time to trim the classes and be current. Only vintage cares about a 440 that was last produced 15 plus years ago. There's nothing wrong with vintage sleds I have some myself. But it's time to seperate classes from a sled where a guy actually tunes it looking at the plugs and changing jets -vs- a guy buying a tune and downloading it to the sled. Edited April 29, 2021 by Doug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 When new trail sleds are faster through the trails than old sleds, I'll take a look at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinfarmer Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 20 hours ago, mnstang said: When new trail sleds are faster through the trails than old sleds, I'll take a look at them. I loved my ZR's and Firecats, but I'm pretty certain I couldn't go back to riding one for a weekend anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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