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2 Scratch or not 2 Scratch that is the Question?


Icecube

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Get your heads out of the gutter... need some feed back on a new scratcher rigging I worked up.

I need to get spray at the most forward bogies and skid.

 I had the sprung wire type on the foot runners, they were okay but get bent up bad in the fast rough.

rigged up a set of cable scratchers, tapped a set of billet knobs if found at hardware store attached to a carriage bolt... so now with only gloves needed I can loosen to lower and raise.

I can also make the angle sharper in the down position, but keep in mind the skid floats so the ground clearance constantly changes.

Thoughts?

E57C1373-1289-4FE4-92C3-DDDC1A39B7BB.jpeg

82304EA8-D5AA-442C-9092-2B8A7CE12CBA.jpeg

E8CD4562-6B47-42ED-9C45-CD4FE98CED25.jpeg

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Seems likening would work but, why not just do a standard set up instead of trying to get it so far forward?  The snow/ice should travel around the track and lubricate the front slides and exchanger well enough....unless you are REALLY riding on slim pickins.

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I tried the regular further back but the sliders behind the bogies get smoked... yes, in slim picking crappy low snow/ice, that’s a 1.60 Cobra.

I like late season riding, all the Ricky Racers blew their load and the trails are quieter, accommodations are easy to get, and days are much longer.

But yes.. that’s why so far forward.

By the way, is this the right sub forum for technical discussion on this sight???

the Brand sections are super quiet.

 

thanks for the feedback Zam!🧤

🐸

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4 hours ago, mnstang said:

Slides are pretty cheap, I wouldn't worry about it.

Some people have scratchers that mount on the skis hardware.

I carry spares in the trailer... not sold on shit hanging from my ski’s... any experience?

3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

IDK

 

200 (1).gif

I hear ya!

not sold myself, they should work in theory, they should reverse well and they hide really nice.

the spring scratchers on the rails dig into (rub) in the rail, plus the RR is a 129 with the double bogeys on the outer and directly behind another set on the inner in addition to all the holes cut on the side of the rails not a lot of mounting points before they are hanging behind the idler wheels.

thanks for the discussion 

Edited by Icecube
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31 minutes ago, Icecube said:

I carry spares in the trailer... not sold on shit hanging from my ski’s... any experience?

I hear ya!

not sold myself, they should work in theory, they should reverse well and they hide really nice.

the spring scratchers on the rails dig into (rub) in the rail, plus the RR is a 129 with the double bogeys on the outer and directly behind another set on the inner in addition to all the holes cut on the side of the rails not a lot of mounting points before they are hanging behind the idler wheels.

thanks for the discussion 

I need to add some to both my sleds for cooling peace of mind, but hate the thought of drilling into the rails.

Have you tried Vespel Slides?  AmazonSmile: Yamaha SMA-DPSSR-00-00 DuPont Slide: Automotive

2lapsdown said they last a lot longer and on lake races gained 1mph or more on the top end.

They will fit your ZR but for a lot less... ;) 

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat/arctic-cat-6639-448-dupont-vespel-performance-wear-strip-sold-individually-121-146-inch

Edited by Crnr2Crnr
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57 minutes ago, Icecube said:

I carry spares in the trailer... not sold on shit hanging from my ski’s... any experience?

I hear ya!

not sold myself, they should work in theory, they should reverse well and they hide really nice.

the spring scratchers on the rails dig into (rub) in the rail, plus the RR is a 129 with the double bogeys on the outer and directly behind another set on the inner in addition to all the holes cut on the side of the rails not a lot of mounting points before they are hanging behind the idler wheels.

thanks for the discussion 

I haven't used the ski scratchers but guys that do claim they work.  I'm not sold on them.  I'd just use the standard cat spring style.  They work the best.  You can slit a piece of rubber hose and put over your rail if you're worried about it digging in or attach a small piece of steel.. or many other ways I'm sure.  For the mounting I my high country has back to back wheels like that and you just have to remove the trailing wheel and use that hole.  Yes you lose a wheel but it's not a big deal and it's not necessary because now your slides have lube (giggity) from the scratchers.

If you are going through slides fast enough where you have to carry spares then you need scratchers because you're also overheating your track which will cause premature (giggity) failure.

I don't like the cable scratchers they flop all over and ate always coming unhooked when they shouldn't be.  And I think they'd add alot more drag if you play in snow.

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Any wire type is pointless for true spring ice over.  If it is a spring with a lot of tension it won't be enough.  Sure they help, but all your efforts to move them forward won't do anything if they don't dig up ice.  Either the tunnel or rail mount BRP options are the best choices IMO.  

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I'll give Duraflex another nod here.  Sure...they are spendy but, they work really, really well.  I had a 1.75 lug and ran some icy conditions also.  They worked excellent and I actually put them to the test just to see if they really did help.  It was a no brainer not only by looks of snow built up in the skid but by temp also.  Had mine mounted in this location on my sleds.

 

Skid 1.jpg

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12 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

I need to add some to both my sleds for cooling peace of mind, but hate the thought of drilling into the rails.

Have you tried Vespel Slides?  AmazonSmile: Yamaha SMA-DPSSR-00-00 DuPont Slide: Automotive

2lapsdown said they last a lot longer and on lake races gained 1mph or more on the top end.

They will fit your ZR but for a lot less... ;) 

https://www.countrycat.com/arctic-cat/arctic-cat-6639-448-dupont-vespel-performance-wear-strip-sold-individually-121-146-inch

Morning Boys... movie night last night.

I have been eying those sliders, I got to burn through the ones on and another on standby, so I should need them next week.

Forgot... yes, mostly needed to spray heat exchangers to keep motor cool.

11 hours ago, mnstang said:

I haven't used the ski scratchers but guys that do claim they work.  I'm not sold on them.  I'd just use the standard cat spring style.  They work the best.  You can slit a piece of rubber hose and put over your rail if you're worried about it digging in or attach a small piece of steel.. or many other ways I'm sure.  For the mounting I my high country has back to back wheels like that and you just have to remove the trailing wheel and use that hole.  Yes you lose a wheel but it's not a big deal and it's not necessary because now your slides have lube (giggity) from the scratchers.

If you are going through slides fast enough where you have to carry spares then you need scratchers because you're also overheating your track which will cause premature (giggity) failure.

I don't like the cable scratchers they flop all over and ate always coming unhooked when they shouldn't be.  And I think they'd add alot more drag if you play in snow.

Not sold on the ski type for drag or the hang me downs from the A-arms... they look fudgly!

Hear ya on the cables... they seam to J after time and do nothing.

thanks Brother.

2 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Any wire type is pointless for true spring ice over.  If it is a spring with a lot of tension it won't be enough.  Sure they help, but all your efforts to move them forward won't do anything if they don't dig up ice.  Either the tunnel or rail mount BRP options are the best choices IMO.  

Agree.. I really like the BRP off the top skid wheel, they are slick, won’t fit my application.

👍

2 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I'll give Duraflex another nod here.  Sure...they are spendy but, they work really, really well.  I had a 1.75 lug and ran some icy conditions also.  They worked excellent and I actually put them to the test just to see if they really did help.  It was a no brainer not only by looks of snow built up in the skid but by temp also.  Had mine mounted in this location on my sleds.

 

Skid 1.jpg

Nice Skid... my RR skid rails are totally different.

I have inner rail wheel right where you mounted, and I have a shit hole of cut outs on mine. I looked everywhere to mount ruggedly.. and as Corner said I hate to drill into the rails.

6582E871-70AF-4D4D-8678-E5669EC9F0CB.thumb.jpeg.08d40a414f6f4e860d005f88772cfd73.jpeg

Every time I go to see how to put on a cable I feel the spray will be too far back, and I will only wash the goggles of my wing man!

thanks Zam.

Enjoying the place here.

🐸

 

Edited by Icecube
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Just now, Icecube said:

Morning Boys... movie night last night.

I have been eying those sliders, I got to burn through the ones on and another on standby, so I should need them next week.

Not sold on the ski type for drag or the hang me downs from the A-arms... they look fudgly!

Hear ya on the cables... they seam to J after time and do nothing.

thanks Brother.

Agree.. I really like the BRP off the top skid wheel, they are slick, won’t fit my application.

👍

Nice Skid... my RR skid is totally different.

I have inner rail wheel right where you mounted, and I have a shit hole of cut outs on mine. I looked everywhere to mount ruggedly.. and as Corner said I hate to drill into the rails.

6582E871-70AF-4D4D-8678-E5669EC9F0CB.thumb.jpeg.08d40a414f6f4e860d005f88772cfd73.jpeg

Every time I go to see how to put on a cable I feel the spray will be too far back and I will one wash the goggles of my wing man!

thanks Zam.

Enjoying the place here.

🐸

 

They don't have to be mounted in any one place.  You can drill the holes where they will work best (as close to the front as possible making sure not to weaken the skid),  I'll see if I have a pic where I put them on my RRs

 

 

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I will look closer again... the other consideration has to go to the hang on rail for off use staged spot.

you ever have any issues with extremely hard impact to the cable at the mounting collar?

any pictures on a RR rail would be awesome.

 

thank you!

🐸

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571FB9F6-629F-431C-9F87-1845785398DC.thumb.jpeg.c1f2368f0291dd5067d653cebc46c971.jpeg

you see the two large cut out squares just behind the last outer forward bogey wheel, you think that’s enough meat strength between the two holes to hold a cable and not cause damage?

that is my preferred location, lots of rail past to hang on for off use.

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Just now, Icecube said:

I will look closer again... the other consideration has to go to the hang on rail for off use staged spot.

you ever have any issues with extremely hard impact to the cable at the mounting collar?

any pictures on a RR rail would be awesome.

 

thank you!

🐸

I just let mine hang down all the time.  I found no reason to mess with putting them up.  Some mount eye bolts or hooks.  Or, they will hook over the back of the skid too.

 

53394180827__34174E79-0136-461B-B083-78F8BACC6FF4.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

I just let mine hang down all the time.  I found no reason to mess with putting them up.  Some mount eye bolts or hooks.  Or, they will hook over the back of the skid too.

 

53394180827__34174E79-0136-461B-B083-78F8BACC6FF4.jpg

I would be most comfortable to not hang them then.

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This would be a good area to mount (red dot).  Just make sure you stay about an inch away from any cut out and the top of the rail.  If you do it correctly (drill the right size hole and torque it down properly), there won't be any compromising the strength of the skid.

FS RR (3)_LI.jpg

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Looking at your setup I don't think there will be enough force down on the snow.  With the angle the cables are mounted at on the rail they really don't want to flex much.  This keeps a lot of downward pressure on the carbide tips to dig into the snow.  Mine are mounted further back that is probably ideal but it still kicks up a lot of snow.  It won't save your slides if you put on a lot of miles in marginal conditions but it will keep the engine cool.  Slides are cheap and I usually start the year with a new pair and maybe replace them once mid-season.

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3 hours ago, Zambroski said:

This would be a good area to mount (red dot).  Just make sure you stay about an inch away from any cut out and the top of the rail.  If you do it correctly (drill the right size hole and torque it down properly), there won't be any compromising the strength of the skid.

FS RR (3)_LI.jpg

Thanks Zam... going to get a set around me and fool around with a couple of locations.

3 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

This is all I did and it works fine, even on ice or in crusty spring conditions.  2016 RR

image.thumb.png.939186a9d7051aa353169a250443b2f7.png

Teamgreen...thank you for the pic, is that hole directly behind the inner bogey? Did you have to remove the wheel to slip bolt in or will it slip in between the wheel and rail?

Love how you protected the top of the rails... awesome!

sorry for all the questions, they are the same brand Duraflex cables as Zambroski mentioned right?

2 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

Looking at your setup I don't think there will be enough force down on the snow.  With the angle the cables are mounted at on the rail they really don't want to flex much.  This keeps a lot of downward pressure on the carbide tips to dig into the snow.  Mine are mounted further back that is probably ideal but it still kicks up a lot of snow.  It won't save your slides if you put on a lot of miles in marginal conditions but it will keep the engine cool.  Slides are cheap and I usually start the year with a new pair and maybe replace them once mid-season.

Ya I am not overly concerned about sliders, keeping coolers cold most important.

‘thanks everyone... I will play around with this setup suggested, I will use the top ones to wash my wingers goggles I guess.🤣

🐸

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3 minutes ago, Icecube said:

Thanks Zam... going to get a set around me and full around with a couple of locations.

Teamgreen...thank you for the pic, is that hole directly behind the inner bogey? Did you have to remove the wheel to slip bolt in or will it slip in between the wheel and rail?

sorry for all the questions, they are the same brand cables as Zambroski mentioned right?

Ya I am not overly concerned about sliders, keeping coolers cold most important.

‘thanks everyone... I will play around with this setup suggested, I will use the top ones to wash my wingers goggles I guess.🤣

🐸

These are the same ones Zambroski runs, Duraflex cable scratchers.  Get the ones with the carbide tips, not the washers.

Can't remember exactly what needed to come out since I did it when the skid was out and apart for rebuilding shocks.  I'm pretty sure you will need to remove the inner bogey wheels.  That's just an 8mm wrench and 10 mm socket to get that done.  Center punch or drill a pilot hole first, then drill to the bolt diameter in the instructions.  I used a torque wrench and stripped one out.  Their instructions had way too high of a torque value for that size bolt.  Duraflex jacked me around and never did give me a new one under warranty, so I don't think too much of those guys.

Installation tips is to use the red loctite they provide, hold the elbow at the angle you want, and use a 1/4" electric impact to tighten up the bolt.  That will help seat the knurled portion on the elbow in the aluminum rails and keep it from turning.  Another piece of advice, buy 2 sets so you have spare cables and tips.  If you never need them, great, just put them on your next sled.

I wouldn't run them down all the time like Zambroski.  His high mileage weekends are less than my Friday mornings.  They are another wear item so just keep that in mind.  Lots of times I just drop one down and that is more than enough to keep things cool.

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