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2 Scratch or not 2 Scratch that is the Question?


Icecube

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Awesome TeamG...

everything makes total sense, I will rig up some rubber on the top of the rails to keep things snug and no rubbing.

Thanks Boys

Pics will follow as season get going.

👍🐸

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3 hours ago, Icecube said:

Awesome TeamG...

everything makes total sense, I will rig up some rubber on the top of the rails to keep things snug and no rubbing.

Thanks Boys

Pics will follow as season get going.

👍🐸

That's 1/4" fuel line BTW.  Just slit it down one side with a razor blade and then zip tie them on.

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21 hours ago, mnstang said:

I haven't used the ski scratchers but guys that do claim they work.  I'm not sold on them.  I'd just use the standard cat spring style.  They work the best.  You can slit a piece of rubber hose and put over your rail if you're worried about it digging in or attach a small piece of steel.. or many other ways I'm sure.  For the mounting I my high country has back to back wheels like that and you just have to remove the trailing wheel and use that hole.  Yes you lose a wheel but it's not a big deal and it's not necessary because now your slides have lube (giggity) from the scratchers.

If you are going through slides fast enough where you have to carry spares then you need scratchers because you're also overheating your track which will cause premature (giggity) failure.

I don't like the cable scratchers they flop all over and ate always coming unhooked when they shouldn't be.  And I think they'd add alot more drag if you play in snow.

wtf otb?

11 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Any wire type is pointless for true spring ice over.  If it is a spring with a lot of tension it won't be enough.  Sure they help, but all your efforts to move them forward won't do anything if they don't dig up ice.  Either the tunnel or rail mount BRP options are the best choices IMO.  

I was looking at the BuRP version just last night, BuRP sure is proud of anything they sell but their shit (other than an 800) seems to work.

11 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I'll give Duraflex another nod here.  Sure...they are spendy but, they work really, really well.  I had a 1.75 lug and ran some icy conditions also.  They worked excellent and I actually put them to the test just to see if they really did help.  It was a no brainer not only by looks of snow built up in the skid but by temp also.  Had mine mounted in this location on my sleds.

 

Skid 1.jpg

nice skid, still own it?  mow the fucking lawn too slacker

9 hours ago, Icecube said:

Morning Boys... movie night last night.

I have been eying those sliders, I got to burn through the ones on and another on standby, so I should need them next week.

Forgot... yes, mostly needed to spray heat exchangers to keep motor cool.

Not sold on the ski type for drag or the hang me downs from the A-arms... they look fudgly!

Hear ya on the cables... they seam to J after time and do nothing.

thanks Brother.

Agree.. I really like the BRP off the top skid wheel, they are slick, won’t fit my application.

👍

Nice Skid... my RR skid rails are totally different.

I have inner rail wheel right where you mounted, and I have a shit hole of cut outs on mine. I looked everywhere to mount ruggedly.. and as Corner said I hate to drill into the rails.

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Every time I go to see how to put on a cable I feel the spray will be too far back, and I will only wash the goggles of my wing man!

thanks Zam.

Enjoying the place here.

🐸

 

I'm less concerned with slide lubrication than I am with getting snow to the cooler.  Slides are cheap, overheated engines - not so much.

WTF is up with the orange snow flap man?

9 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I just let mine hang down all the time.  

 

 

your wife said it doesn't hang, dangle or even droop a little bit? :dunno:    

9 hours ago, Zambroski said:

This would be a good area to mount (red dot).  Just make sure you stay about an inch away from any cut out and the top of the rail.  If you do it correctly (drill the right size hole and torque it down properly), there won't be any compromising the strength of the skid.

FS RR (3)_LI.jpg

Procross rails have more material to work with to dial in an ideal mounting location... must be nice.

8 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

Looking at your setup I don't think there will be enough force down on the snow.  With the angle the cables are mounted at on the rail they really don't want to flex much.  This keeps a lot of downward pressure on the carbide tips to dig into the snow.  Mine are mounted further back that is probably ideal but it still kicks up a lot of snow.  It won't save your slides if you put on a lot of miles in marginal conditions but it will keep the engine cool.  Slides are cheap and I usually start the year with a new pair and maybe replace them once mid-season.

engine cool = good

slides cool = bonus

3 hours ago, Deephaven said:

I like how the ass of your sled says Lube

that's just a little bit gay... but still fairly gay.

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On 12/30/2020 at 8:32 AM, Zambroski said:

I'll give Duraflex another nod here.  Sure...they are spendy but, they work really, really well.  I had a 1.75 lug and ran some icy conditions also.  They worked excellent and I actually put them to the test just to see if they really did help.  It was a no brainer not only by looks of snow built up in the skid but by temp also.  Had mine mounted in this location on my sleds.

 

Skid 1.jpg

Yep those work great I have them on 3 sleds

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On 12/30/2020 at 4:38 PM, Deephaven said:

I like how the ass of your sled says Lube

Well.. I could make an adjustment to the C... I think I know where your going, we only use the good shit at the Ranch!

 Just a drop will do ya!

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On 12/30/2020 at 8:12 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

wtf otb?I was looking at the BuRP version just last night, BuRP sure is proud of anything they sell but their shit (other than an 800) seems to work.

nice skid, still own it?  mow the fucking lawn too slacker

I'm less concerned with slide lubrication than I am with getting snow to the cooler.  Slides are cheap, overheated engines - not so much.

WTF is up with the orange snow flap man?your wife said it doesn't hang, dangle or even droop a little bit? :dunno:    

Procross rails have more material to work with to dial in an ideal mounting location... must be nice.

engine cool = good

slides cool = bonus

that's just a little bit gay... but still fairly

 

Edited by Icecube
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On 12/30/2020 at 8:12 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

wtf otb?

I was looking at the BuRP version just last night, BuRP sure is proud of anything they sell but their shit (other than an 800) seems to work.

nice skid, still own it?  mow the fucking lawn too slacker

I'm less concerned with slide lubrication than I am with getting snow to the cooler.  Slides are cheap, overheated engines - not so much.

WTF is up with the orange snow flap man?

your wife said it doesn't hang, dangle or even droop a little bit? :dunno:    

 

engine cool = good

slides cool = bonus

that's just a little bit gay... but still fairly gay.

How do you work this shit?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay… Here is the update, keep in mind I am no mechanic, just a Green Potato Farmer at best!

Summary:

* 2 Days work 

* Non of your location suggestion worked on this skid (Broski skid pic is close, the 2013 skid has window cut outs where his are) (Team’s Location, I wonder if his is a 137 skid? Mine is 129)

* tones of waisted time realizing that my first investigation 6 years ago is the only place cables will work... Yup, Right between the eyes, where I didn’t want to go, but f@#& it I came this far again... GIVE ME THE DRILL!!! 

* another year and a half, figuring out freaking angles!

* another 6 months tooling a piece of grade 8 metal for rail stop cable lock

* another 3 weeks waiting for GORILLA Glue to dry to fuel line as rail protection 

* I think my math timing is off slightly, it felt like all of that.

* I couldn’t imagine being a dealer... I would have to charge $800.to install, labor, machining and shop tools .

Well... I got there, and Thank You all, this is much better then my first cheesy design attempt. 
 

Now when they are Stowed there Stowed, and when they Cut they Cut. They will probably fly off on my first rip!

Thanks Again, please share any criticism, and smack talk.

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Edited by Icecube
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On 1/15/2021 at 1:49 PM, Icecube said:

Okay… Here is the update, keep in mind I am no mechanic, just a Green Potato Farmer at best!

Summary:

* 2 Days work 

* Non of your location suggestion worked on this skid (Broski skid pic is close, the 2013 skid has window cut outs where his are) (Team’s Location, I wonder if his is a 137 skid? Mine is 129)

* tones of waisted time realizing that my first investigation 6 years ago is the only place cables will work... Yup, Right between the eyes, where I didn’t want to go, but f@#& it I came this far again... GIVE ME THE DRILL!!! 

* another year and a half, figuring out freaking angles!

* another 6 months tooling a piece of grade 8 metal for rail stop cable lock

* another 3 weeks waiting for GORILLA Glue to dry to fuel line as rail protection 

* I think my math timing is off slightly, it felt like all of that.

* I couldn’t imagine being a dealer... I would have to charge $800.to install, labor, machining and shop tools .

Well... I got there, and Thank You all, this is much better then my first cheesy design attempt. 
 

Now when they are Stowed there Stowed, and when they Cut they Cut. They will probably fly off on my first rip!

Thanks Again, please share any criticism, and smack talk.

6BACD9B3-9641-47A5-9393-6A92BDA2B7D0.jpeg

6660D79D-8DE6-45AD-AF40-706C3FE4C358.jpeg

370823DB-084E-45EC-BD5E-AD922E7B24AF.jpeg

3D1EF743-8927-404B-8EF2-F99E03D3B850.jpeg

B63F37DA-46FA-4854-B9DA-4CD173E42E8F.jpeg

380AC17C-3549-4D54-961C-A6F3F14AEA3B.jpeg

5E15919D-B679-4F03-A284-8D7C2C031382.jpeg

DEE0D379-DCE6-4DED-84AF-14DF5DBCAEE2.jpeg

That should work.

If it were me (and its not) I would have moved it back behind the bogey wheels, right where your brackets are now.  There was a spec on how far they should be mounted above the bottom of the hyfax.  That would help with the tight bend the cable is at.

The good thing is your rails aren't painted so you can always move them later if it doesn't work as planned.  Just chalk the extra holes up to weight savings.

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13 hours ago, Fireball 440 said:

Consider using locktite or at least lock washers on the nuts for your little brackets there.

Thank you Fireball.. yes all hardware has locking washers on both ends, the thin electric type starburst and nut locker with locktite on all threads.

 

11 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

That should work.

If it were me (and its not) I would have moved it back behind the bogey wheels, right where your brackets are now.  There was a spec on how far they should be mounted above the bottom of the hyfax.  That would help with the tight bend the cable is at.

The good thing is your rails aren't painted so you can always move them later if it doesn't work as planned.  Just chalk the extra holes up to weight savings.

I was all over that area... but the hang up with the 13 rails is the angle of the rail is so thin after the rubber bump it was not high enough to hang the cable out of ground reach. It you notice your skid has a real rubber bump, I have a thin flat rubber bump.

‘Also on the instructions it shows to install at that height, I feel because of that thick line bead of above the hole it would be strong enough support strength for the cable between the eyelets windows. The down pressure seams to be quite high? They were specific to ensure 45degree angle at the cable elbow bend.

I am in the same area as Broski skid, his are on the top of the thick bead I am below, he doesn’t have the extra cut out windows on the left of his like mine. Also I went with what I could find on Amazon and these are SLP’s they look shorter and the type you have hook at the carbide tip is greater to hook on the rails.

Very dry here in south Ontario, I hope maybe next week I will have some clean snow to draw some cut lines and see how it sprays the skid.

Thank you all very much for all your assistance and support, I am grateful and will report back, hope I don’t need adjustments but if I do I know where to get insights.

Peace, Cube.

Edited by Icecube
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Team... you are right about the tight bend to achieve being stowed on rails, I will consider maybe going above the bead line to relax that tension, when they are not mounted it is super hard to see how they react to the stretch to the rails because you can’t hold the end against the rail by hand properly.


thank again 

Cube

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2 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

What exactly happens from them being stowed like that? 
held the shape of the tight bend? 

Yes, the cables will have a memory.  The sharper the bend the more they will stay that way.  When they are bent it reduces the downforce and how they will contact the snow. 

For the offseason I store mine in the down position.  During the season I will leave them up though.

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8 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said:

Yes, the cables will have a memory.  The sharper the bend the more they will stay that way.  When they are bent it reduces the downforce and how they will contact the snow. 

For the offseason I store mine in the down position.  During the season I will leave them up though.

makes sense. 

they should make a holder that mounts the the side of the rail.. i'm surprised they even stay up on the top like that.

you could make it mount to one of these bolts, piece of angle with a notch in for the carbide tip? 

not sure what kind of equipment you have access too, but its an idea rather than drill more holes 


 

image.png

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Cwhite138... you are exactly right on the cable bend changing it’s ability to go straight back… the area you have pointed out is exactly where I placed the bracket first, the metal I have there was pre-drilled scrap, and when I mounted it using that screw you circled the other hole was right at the tip of the rails, so I moved it forward to get more rail thickness to mount two bolts.

I really appreciate all the interest from you all to get this right... I can go back to that position, to do so I have to cut off the bottom hole section of the plate and drill another hole closer to the top one to give it proper support onto the rail.

you can see in this pic how thin the rails tapper to that spot, but there is enough to accommodate the plate, I just have to do more fabrication to the plate and I was on my (second year of assembly LOL) so my efforts to do more got lazy, I thought this was going to be a snap. 

the trails are closing and no snow, so I will take all you points into consideration and make effort to make improvements.

Lastly... yes, I also, like Team will only stow when riding in good snow conditions and will release them in the trailer and off use as they are now just like this picture in the shop now.

You guys are awesome, thanks you.

Cube

06B874E7-FE1D-4FD4-A6DA-C987C34F39FC.jpeg

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Looking closer using this picture, I maybe able to put more lean to the rear on the plate to keep the holes on the plate alone, just not sure how the cable is going to meet the plate that far back?

Keep you posted

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I have those same scratchers and I didn't trust them staying up no matter what kind of hinky bracket I could make.

I used a heavy duty zip tie on each side to zip it to the rail.  300 miles on so far this shitty snow year and I haven't had to snip them loose yet.

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Thanks Bro... I am going to make tomorrow a shop day and see if there is any wiggle room for the plate to help relax the cable, they are shorter than I hoped… they are 12” but the ends have no give to have a good relationship with the rail, if anyone goes with SLP (straight line performance) I would try the 15”… they say that length is for long track, but It’s really tight to hang on rails as you can see our troubles.

The brand Team and Broski run look like a better fit.

 I will be back with any improvements I can figure out.

Cube🧤

 

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just skeched up something quick. but here is what I would doo.. no real dimensions. It would stick out from the side of the rail.. not sure if that will be an issueimage.thumb.png.1456eddf2b4f29a09e50ff4a82821a0c.png


Funny shaped slot is to hold the carbide.. that they are not as bent to get up on top of the rail.... just an idea I have not clue if it would even work but wouldn't require more holes. 

Edited by Cwhite138
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Cwhite... gotcha! The solution for this cable rigging as Fireball has mentioned using zip ties are a side rail cable mounted bracket as you so kindly sketched.

Today I have time for shop day, I will dig into my bag of tricks and see if I can fabricate something to bolt onto the side of rails, not sure if I can pull something like this off since I am only a Green Potato Farmer, but I bleed Green… so I will give it a go! Lol

They if I somehow pull it off... you want to make a patient??? We could be ROLLING in GREEN then!

image.png.1516b246f24628b440d3257bc5a4ea0d.png

Cube

 

Edited by Icecube
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Cwhite; TeamG ; Fireball... want to say thank you for pushing me to achieve a higher quality result again.

 I will try not to type a lot and let the pic’s speak for me.

just some notes to share to anyone who has gone with SLP cables or are having similar issues.

* the plate is grade 8 steal 1”X3”

* tried to give you pic’s of measurements of bend lengths

Lastly... this sled is a product of being a passionate Sled Head, and everything on it I learned from forums like this one and HCS, lots of blood sweat and tears, but it would not have become a reality or any fun without the priceless contribution of Real Hard Core Sledders like the ones who Rome the forums, don’t be afraid of the smack talking or Bashing... it’s all BULL SHIT! Stay true to yourself and follow along, there are great knowledge people here.

Enjoy... Oh, ya! I have to check with my patient partner Cwhite... but these plates will be for sale for $0.99 each and we are going to sell millions, Fireball would you like the first set?:roflcrying:

 

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