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Former Blue Jay Roy Halladay dies....


Dave

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Very sad news! What a great pitcher and person he was. A shoo-in for the HOF as well. Sad leaving his wife and 2 teenage children behind. 

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8 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Why is it shitty?  I’m not a plane guy. I see it had power by BRP. 

They are a tiny little pusher plane that can land in water.  If you read up about them, a bunch of people have been killed in them (test pilot, the designer of the plane).  Personally, I would never get in a pusher at all.  

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It's actually a cool little machine.  Quite car-like for the occupants.  iconaircraft.com

Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine.  :)  Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc.  Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans.  :)

The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error.  It's looking like Halladay's death could be also.  The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close.  Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges.  Here's a grab I took from the vid.  Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it.  

Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. 

 

Icon.jpeg

Edited by Puzzleboy
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11 hours ago, Puzzleboy said:

It's actually a cool little machine.  Quite car-like for the occupants.  iconaircraft.com

Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine.  :)  Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc.  Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans.  :)

The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error.  It's looking like Halladay's death could be also.  The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close.  Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges.  Here's a grab I took from the vid.  Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it.  

Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. 

 

Icon.jpeg

Its still a POS.  Not something I'd ever buy or fly in

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My NTSB buddy is doing the tech side of the investigation, he is based on Vacaville where the aircraft is built.  I've been there, usually stop there on the way to Reno. nice little plane, not my favorite.  All the pusher airplanes have different handling qualities than a regular aircraft like a 180. There will be more accidents with the plane. The litigation might kill the aircraft early.

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19 hours ago, Puzzleboy said:

It's actually a cool little machine.  Quite car-like for the occupants.  iconaircraft.com

Also, the Rotax 912 is an aerospace engine; it has more in common with a Continental or Lycoming, than it does a sled engine.  :)  Boxer layout, dual ignition, etc.  Renegade - An Avanti is a pusher, as are most all fans.  :)

The Test pilot and engineer were killed due to pilot error.  It's looking like Halladay's death could be also.  The TMZ vid shows the wreckage up close.  Some were saying he was fucking around..... shouldn't be too long before some good data from the investigation emerges.  Here's a grab I took from the vid.  Never good to see landing gear on a wrecked amphib, but It's possible the damage to the hull/gear bay is severe enough that it simply exposed the retracted gear. Would have to see more of it.  

Extended landing gear and water landings don't mix well. 

 

Icon.jpeg

Yep extended gear gets a ton of amphib guys....I'm thinking there is way to much damage on this one for that to be the cause.   Generally water landings with the gear down is a lower impact and lower energy ending with very little hull damage.....because the pilot is in control and trying to actually land......this has some questionable damage...IE...broken (fuselage) back implies something bigger, or more energy.....perhaps stall spin, or a porpoised landing and wing dig.....

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Because they didn't want too....not everyone thinks that way, especially at an aircraft accident site.  The wreckage is inverted so it would likely have been impossible anyway. 

Edited by Poncho
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15 hours ago, Poncho said:

Yep extended gear gets a ton of amphib guys....I'm thinking there is way to much damage on this one for that to be the cause.   Generally water landings with the gear down is a lower impact and lower energy ending with very little hull damage.....because the pilot is in control and trying to actually land......this has some questionable damage...IE...broken (fuselage) back implies something bigger, or more energy.....perhaps stall spin, or a porpoised landing and wing dig.....

Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. 

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3 hours ago, Renegade X said:

Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. 

I saw a video that has the aircraft doing a climbing left turn and then descending flying low over the water.  I couldn't tell whether that is hot dogging or not.  Also I don't know what experience he had.  

Edited by Poncho
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1 hour ago, Poncho said:

I saw a video that has the aircraft doing a climbing left turn and then descending flying low over the water.  I couldn't tell whether that is hot dogging or not.  Also I don't know what experience he had.  

I read that he had about 26 hours flying time lol

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All I saw was the TMZ video from the fishermen.  Cannot tell from that if he was "hotdogging" or not.  High rates of turn or rapid descents are not necessarily hotdogging, especially in a responsive aircraft.  I did read somewhere that he didn''t have a lot of experience. 

Hot-dogging or not, it still remains to be seen if he was attempting a landing, was disoriented with regards to his altitude, or had a mechanical issue, or exceeded the aircraft's envelope somehow.  We'll have to wait and see.....

 

On 11/10/2017 at 10:54 AM, Renegade X said:

Did you not see the footage of the crash? He was hot doggin with minimal experience. 

Edited by Puzzleboy
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Very strange behavior from a man that had so much self control and was so detail oriented.

For him to fly his plane with such erratic behavior as seen by several witnesses  over the space of several days has to make one wonder IF he was tired of living.

How long does it take for the black boxes to be removed and investigated for mechanical failure ?

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We don't really know what his behaviour was though, that's the thing.  Not yet, at least.  And if you were going to be suicidal, I would think you would attain lots of attitude.  He looked to be flying level at quite a low altitude, from what little we've seen. 

Typically planes of that size never carried Flight Data Recorders (FDRs), or Cockpit Voice Recorders (CVRs) in the past.  But when I looked at Icon's specs the other day, I saw mention of FDRs in their PAs for the A5.  (Interestingly, there was also a "Covenant Not to Sue Icon..... " in the same PA).  That will certainly be incredibly useful information for the investigative team.  They''ll hopefully be able to tell if several control inputs were commanded/uncommanded, and will be able to view any other parameters that Icon feeds into the unit via various sensors (power settings, altitude, flight control positions, gear config, etc.).  - If his plane was so equipped.  If he had recorders Frosty, they'd find/remove them quite quickly (especially in a crash in shallow water like that).  The data can be extracted quickly also, if undamaged. 

Keep in mind folks..... even a medical incident cannot be ruled out yet. 

Edited by Puzzleboy
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Interesting. If it was a medical incident, I cann,t imagine he would of been flying like that for several days, as reported by many boaters, until he crashed.

Seems like everything re this accident has gone quiet.

I thought info from the data recorders might have been released by now. A strange accident, for sure.

Hopefully they find the real cause, soon.

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