motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Im4fascism circa 1860: 'the slave trade has driven the negro standard of living to the highest it's ever been! God bless the free market!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Im4snow said: Not sure what's so funny. Offering something of value (your time, knowledge, skill, etc) in exchange for compensation of some type (usually money) simply works for both parties. Sure there are cases of abuse, but in general, especially in a competitive market-bases system, the net/net results in, all things considered, the best outcome for both parties. Just think through the exchange of a prostitute and her John. Or a drug dealer and his customer (er, "patient"). Pretty simple really. Oh, and no other system known to man has driven living standards forward faster and to a higher level then capitalism with some refereeing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im4snow Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Im4fascism circa 1860: 'the slave trade has driven the negro standard of living to the highest it's ever been! God bless the free market!' Ok, we'll go off topic. Pretty sure enslaving humans started before America, yet ended because of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Just now, Im4snow said: Ok, we'll go off topic. Pretty sure enslaving humans started before America, yet ended because of America. Omfg. Lmao! What a rose colored view you have there. Slavery never ended, you idiot. Now we just pay the slaves so the slave owners aren't saddled with the responsibility of feeding and housing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 And when you think about it, slaves were being paid - in food and shelter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im4snow Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Omfg. Lmao! What a rose colored view you have there. Slavery never ended, you idiot. Now we just pay the slaves so the slave owners aren't saddled with the responsibility of feeding and housing them. What's crazy, this really isn't an act. SBYL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 3 hours ago, AKIQPilot said: Me too. Work hard and save 10% of everything you make and you can retire in 30 years. I am happy to have been a slave to capitalism. It seems in communism if you are not the elite 1% you are in poverty and struggle just to get new shoes. You do not even have to wealthy to live well in a capitalist society, you simply have to have a job that is more than entry level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Let's suppose for a moment that it costs 20 cents a day to feed, house, and clothe a slave. If I give that slave 20 cents a day to feed, house, and clothe themself instead, are they still a slave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Answer: Yes. Yes they are still a slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 10 hours ago, motonoggin said: Yeah it was pretty heavy. My favorite kind of idiot wears a bowtie and preaches on and on about how great capitalism is. They're the most dangerous idiots, too, because actual smart people see the bowtie and automatically assume that the dude is a genius. Wolfie has killed that. Anyone that sees him in his "walter" get up knows right away he is a fucking moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) Capitalists love to pretend that giving slaves money somehow makes the arrangement voluntary, clears them of any moral dilemmas, and still allows them to exploit base human instincts to their own benefit while calling it anti poverty. Edited May 20, 2017 by motonoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, motonoggin said: And when you think about it, slaves were being paid - in food and shelter. Can slaves retire when they are fifty and live a good life with a pension? A miner can. I know many that put 30 years underground, started at 20 and now get 50k per year from the company, they have paid off the house and camp, have cars boagts sleds and bikes....hmm, this does not sound like a slave to me. 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Capitalists love to pretend that giving slaves money somehow makes the arrangement voluntary, clears them of any moral dilemmas, and still allows them to exploit base human instincts to their own benefit while calling it anti poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Moto, you do know how an economy works right? Or perhaps not. Labor has been traded for centuries, even among north American native cultures where they would trade what they had created from labor for things others created from labor. If you had your way work would be optional and you would still enjoy everything anyone else can. the problem is, 99% would opt out of working and that would leave 1% to get everything done. Sorry buddy, it simply does not work. Without the potential to get ahead in life the motivation to work is lost. Eventually less people will work, simply due to automation we will have less to do, but they will have less than those that do work, and rightfully so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im4snow Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Well, life isn't "fair". We all have some type of struggle(s) from time to time....extreme in some cases. But life today in the USA is in many respects better than ever....thx in part to capitalism and the way it unleashes human drive, creativity, etc etc etc. To obsess over an idealistic utopia that just ain't gonna happen seems like a fruitless endeavor. Time to make the donuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, Boered said: Can slaves retire when they are fifty and live a good life with a pension? A miner can. I know many that put 30 years underground, started at 20 and now get 50k per year from the company, they have paid off the house and camp, have cars boagts sleds and bikes....hmm, this does not sound like a slave to me. Oh, so we're shifting the conversation from field negroes to house Negroes now? Well, I can give you all sorts of examples of how you're still a slave even if master let's you live in his house. Block out some time. 11 minutes ago, Boered said: Moto, you do know how an economy works right? Or perhaps not. Labor has been traded for centuries, even among north American native cultures where they would trade what they had created from labor for things others created from labor. If you had your way work would be optional and you would still enjoy everything anyone else can. the problem is, 99% would opt out of working and that would leave 1% to get everything done. Sorry buddy, it simply does not work. Without the potential to get ahead in life the motivation to work is lost. Eventually less people will work, simply due to automation we will have less to do, but they will have less than those that do work, and rightfully so. I'm just going to go ahead and let you debate what you think I'm saying instead of what I'm actually saying. 10 minutes ago, Im4snow said: Well, life isn't "fair". We all have some type of struggle(s) from time to time....extreme in some cases. But life today in the USA is in many respects better than ever....thx in part to capitalism and the way it unleashes human drive, creativity, etc etc etc. To obsess over an idealistic utopia that just ain't gonna happen seems like a fruitless endeavor. Time to make the donuts. I'm sure @SSFB will be along shortly to chide you for viewing things from your American privilege... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 4 hours ago, motonoggin said: Oh, so we're shifting the conversation from field negroes to house Negroes now? Well, I can give you all sorts of examples of how you're still a slave even if master let's you live in his house. Block out some time. I'm just going to go ahead and let you debate what you think I'm saying instead of what I'm actually saying. I'm sure @SSFB will be along shortly to chide you for viewing things from your American privilege... Go ahead and tell me how the home we own with no mortgage is owned by someone else? You will be wrong, but try just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Boered said: Go ahead and tell me how the home we own with no mortgage is owned by someone else? You will be wrong, but try just for fun. Clearly you missed the metaphor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 8 hours ago, motonoggin said: Answer: Yes. Yes they are still a slave. but in a capitalist society such as ours the said slave can just say fuck it quit there job and still get the free housing free med free food and a cell phone . all brought to you off the backs of the evil capitalist who is contributing to society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 hell said capitalist is also contributing to many other people not living in his country so they also do not have to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ez ryder said: but in a capitalist society such as ours the said slave can just say fuck it quit there job and still get the free housing free med free food and a cell phone . all brought to you off the backs of the evil capitalist who is contributing to society Not really the subject at hand, but ok 1 minute ago, Ez ryder said: hell said capitalist is also contributing to many other people not living in his country so they also do not have to work Wut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: Not really the subject at hand, but ok Wut? So if you hire some one to clean your house and ask how much and agree to pay for service, Who has been had in your world? What should that service be worth? Should it be tied to your income? Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: So if you hire some one to clean your house and ask how much and agree to pay for service, Who has been had in your world? What should that service be worth? Should it be tied to your income? Lol. It should be the full value of your production. The average $20/hr worker produces $200/hr worth of goods and services. The $180 difference is called 'profit' but it's really just the proceeds of theft from the worker. And how bourgeoisie are you if you have a fucking housekeeper? Sounds like there's a cold cinder block wall in your future.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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