So, the doctor that was dragged off that united flight?

[Ebsell]

6 hours ago, motonoggin said:

It's so fucked that every single victim of state sanctioned violence is demonized and subject to character assassination, almost on cue. They were saying this guy was a criminal within like 12 hours of it happening

Wasn't like that here on the Canadian news. They said he was a lung specialist 

[Mileage Psycho]

4 hours ago, Dave said:

Wasnt simple though....

Here is what's simple; the airlines need to quit overbooking flights.

[Edmo]

2 hours ago, Mileage Psycho said:

Here is what's simple; the airlines need to quit overbooking flights.

It wasn't overbooked, they were trying to get 4 employees to another city by the morning. Sounds like bad planning though for sure.

[Mileage Psycho]

Just now, Edmo said:

It wasn't overbooked, they were trying to get 4 employees to another city by the morning. Sounds like bad planning though for sure.

Then the employees need to wait, or the airline needs to leave several seats unsold in the event they need to get crew to another town, the customer should always be first and foremost in any business.

[hayward]

8 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said:

Then the employees need to wait, or the airline needs to leave several seats unsold in the event they need to get crew to another town, the customer should always be first and foremost in any business.

Agreed.  This is business common sense 101.  In fact, there shouldn't even be a need to take a class on it.

[ArcticCrusher]

9 hours ago, Zambroski said:

Well, they have the right to remove  anyone for a justifiable reason.  Believe it or not, once he resisted, he became a justifiable threat to the passengers.  That's what the United's attorneys will argue....along with their employees following airline and NTSB protocols.  The city is gonna bend over and take a nice one here.  United will fire off upper management over this as Warren Buffet will demand and they'll spend millions over the next few years trying to gain back the 700 million in market cap they lost over something so god damn stupid.  Another 4-600 bucks and they'd have a handful of people ready to walk off that flight.  Comical idiocy.

Haven't heard any airline offering cash in a while.  Usually flight coupons worth x.  Used to be cash and increased until they got all the volunteers they needed.  Simple really and everyone was happy.  Man some guys would even rush to the counter, 'take me, take me'. 

[Dave]

1 hour ago, Mileage Psycho said:

Then the employees need to wait, or the airline needs to leave several seats unsold in the event they need to get crew to another town, the customer should always be first and foremost in any business.

Still doesnt give the guy a reason to act like child and not do what hes told.

[motonoggin]

9 minutes ago, Dave said:

Still doesnt give the guy a reason to act like child and not do what hes told.

Fuck off. He had no obligation to obey them at all and was well within his rights to refuse.

 

[Zambroski]

15 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Haven't heard any airline offering cash in a while.  Usually flight coupons worth x.  Used to be cash and increased until they got all the volunteers they needed.  Simple really and everyone was happy.  Man some guys would even rush to the counter, 'take me, take me'. 

Yeah...United fucked this up.  I bet another $200 and this could all be avoided.  Morons.

6 minutes ago, Dave said:

Still doesnt give the guy a reason to act like child and not do what hes told.

Exactly.  I'm sure this will all be settled out of court but I'd like to know exactly who takes what percentage of blame here.  This being compared to a normal business type incident is absurd.  "If you paid for your food at a restaurant.....and they thew you out before you got your food....."    A complete disconnect.

[Zambroski]

Just now, motonoggin said:

Fuck off. He had no obligation to obey them at all and was well within his rights to refuse.

 

Wrong.  Again.  Just pretend he was a Nazi..there, see?  All better.  Right?

[ArcticCrusher]

7 hours ago, motonoggin said:

Your house isn't a fucking plane seat someone already paid for and you are contractually obligated to honor, but ok

No there isn't any contract.  Many passengers have paid for open flexible fairs.  The airlines try to accommodate all passengers but sometimes it does not work. 

[motonoggin]

I see what's going on here, though.

Some of you value obedience to authority over individual rights. You see obedience as a virtue, when it is anything but. 

[motonoggin]

Just now, ArcticCrusher said:

No there isn't any contract.  Many passengers have paid for open flexible fairs.  The airlines try to accommodate all passengers but sometimes it does not work. 

Yes, there is. They can't remove you from the plane once you've boarded.

[Zambroski]

15 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

No there isn't any contract.  Many passengers have paid for open flexible fairs.  The airlines try to accommodate all passengers but sometimes it does not work. 

Exactly.  And I'm sure his ticket stated such actions may be possible.  Still....the airlines doing this so they could get their emplyees to their next job and save a hundo or two?  Retarded.

[ArcticCrusher]

3 hours ago, Mileage Psycho said:

Here is what's simple; the airlines need to quit overbooking flights.

Not when passengers have the flexibility to change or not even inform the airlines.  You travel for business? 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

I see what's going on here, though.

Some of you value obedience to authority over individual rights. You see obedience as a virtue, when it is anything but. 

See..."individual rights".  By whose laws?  And I'd bet those "rights" don't allow somebody to infringe on the rights or safety of others...do they?  

Just now, motonoggin said:

Yes, there is. They can't remove you from the plane once you've boarded.

Dude.  You must not fly much at all.  You continue to be confused on this matter.

[motonoggin]

IT WASN'T OVERBOOKED YOU ILLITERATE RETARDS

[Zambroski]

Just now, ArcticCrusher said:

Not when passengers have the flexibility to change or not even inform the airlines.  You travel for business? 

Spot on again.  I swear...some of these people have never stepped foot on a plane.  

[Zambroski]

Just now, motonoggin said:

IT WASN'T OVERBOOKED YOU ILLITERATE RETARDS

[ArcticCrusher]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

Yes, there is. They can't remove you from the plane once you've boarded.

I don't think they should have removed anyone.  As z said a couple hundred more and he likely would have been knocking others down to volunteer. 

[Snoslinger]

this guy's background doesn't have a fucking thing to do with how united acted. 

[Snoslinger]

3 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I don't think they should have removed anyone.  As z said a couple hundred more and he likely would have been knocking others down to volunteer. 

yep, now it's going to cost them millions. their ceo ought to be fired as well.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Snoslinger

[motonoggin]

RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
4. Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
5. Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
6. Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
7. Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
   1. The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
   2. Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
8. Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
   1. Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
   2. Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
   3. Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
   4. Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
   5. Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
   6. Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
   7. Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
   8. Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
   9. Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
   10. Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
   11. Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
   12. Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
   13. Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
   14. Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
   15. Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
   16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
   17. Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
   18. Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
   19. Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.
9. Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
10. UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).

[Cold War]

The Donger !!!!!!

No more yanky my wanky.

You mess up my face.

[Zambroski]

2 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

1. Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
2. Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
3. Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
4. Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
5. Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
6. Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
7. Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
   1. The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
   2. Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
8. Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
   1. Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
   2. Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
   3. Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
   4. Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
   5. Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
   6. Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
   7. Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
   8. Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
   9. Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
   10. Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
   11. Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
   12. Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
   13. Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
   14. Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
   15. Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
   16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
   17. Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
   18. Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
   19. Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.
9. Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
10. UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).

I can find a half dozen that any 1st year attorney can successfully argue that the airlines were just in requesting his "removal" being just.  Stupid...but just.