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BREAKING NEWS: Source: House GOP leaders delay vote on health care repeal bill, in setback for President Trump and Speaker Ryan. Story to come...


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33 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

if you have good insurance and connections or money and connections there is no better country in the world for healthcare,  it's why people come into places like Mayo,  Mass General etc from all over the world.  But what we pay for that system fucks the average person who doesn't need the finest healthcare in the world they need basics at a basic price.  Reality is we would be better off with universal healthcare and a rationing of care including letting people die when the quality of their life is low.  

 

 

That is quite sensible. If the US put some of that ruthlessness they use on the poor and put it to good work on the hopeless cases. Keeping an 80 year old full of cancer on life support is dumb. 

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29 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

if you have good insurance and connections or money and connections there is no better country in the world for healthcare,  it's why people come into places like Mayo,  Mass General etc from all over the world.  But what we pay for that system fucks the average person who doesn't need the finest healthcare in the world they need basics at a basic price.  Reality is we would be better off with universal healthcare and a rationing of care including letting people die when the quality of their life is low.  

 

 

Good post and very accurate, if I'm getting a joint replacement I'm going to Rush Presbyterian, for cancer I'm going to Northwestern or Mayo, it's great to be able to afford to have a choice and I truly feel for those that don't have the means to have a choice.

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8 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I would like to know that as well, but the more you make the pendulum swings to the US.

 

On the second bold,  Americans with good insurance have much faster access to HC than Canadians do.  That is why we always hear of Canadians heading to the US for treatments but never the other way around.

That is true but I wonder what percentage is better in Canada than the US. If you need to be in the top 1/2% to be better off in the US then 99-1/2% of people benefit more from the Canadian system.

It will also depend how you make your money.

A small business gets $500,000.00 at the low tax rate. So you can shelter that in a holding company for quite a while.

Likewise with the low tax rate on stock options. If you work for a publicly traded company, you get a better rate.

I'm really not sure how true the waiting story is now. The older I get the more people I know who have needed health care or their family have. Move people expected a long wait and all were shocked with how quickly they received treatment. 

That being said, most of them are intelligent people with great family support. I'm sure a homeless drug addict may end up waiting for cancer treatment.

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26 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I would like to know that as well, but the more you make the pendulum swings to the US.

 

On the second bold,  Americans with good insurance have much faster access to HC than Canadians do.  That is why we always hear of Canadians heading to the US for treatments but never the other way around.

There are cases of people coming here but you're right, you don't hear of them.  My wife's cousin was a Canadian that ended up building luxury custom homes in Florida and had been in the US for years with a green card and full health care plan for him and his employees.  The recession of 2009 took a real toll on his business and at some point he lost his health insurance due to no longer being able to afford it.  Now, he had Hep C and had been receiving treatment at the Mayo Clinic but that all came to a crashing halt when the health care dried up.  Long story short, he left his family in Florida, moved in with family here to receive treatment but ultimately had waited likely a year too long because by the time he had a liver transplant lined up and all the tests etc done, he wasn't healthy enough to survive the operation.  

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4 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

There are cases of people coming here but you're right, you don't hear of them.  My wife's cousin was a Canadian that ended up building luxury custom homes in Florida and had been in the US for years with a green card and full health care plan for him and his employees.  The recession of 2009 took a real toll on his business and at some point he lost his health insurance due to no longer being able to afford it.  Now, he had Hep C and had been receiving treatment at the Mayo Clinic but that all came to a crashing halt when the health care dried up.  Long story short, he left his family in Florida, moved in with family here to receive treatment but ultimately had waited likely a year too long because by the time he had a liver transplant lined up and all the tests etc done, he wasn't healthy enough to survive the operation.  

No doubt, but the underlying issue was they were Canadian so there was a reason to come.  Not so for others with zero Canadian ties.  There are many who come to the US with full insurance paid who get the best treatment, many Canadian plans will pay for treatments when the locals fail to deliver.

 

Thats the issue with the Canadian plan, people die waiting.

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25 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

That is true but I wonder what percentage is better in Canada than the US. If you need to be in the top 1/2% to be better off in the US then 99-1/2% of people benefit more from the Canadian system.

It will also depend how you make your money.

A small business gets $500,000.00 at the low tax rate. So you can shelter that in a holding company for quite a while.

Likewise with the low tax rate on stock options. If you work for a publicly traded company, you get a better rate.

I'm really not sure how true the waiting story is now. The older I get the more people I know who have needed health care or their family have. Move people expected a long wait and all were shocked with how quickly they received treatment. 

That being said, most of them are intelligent people with great family support. I'm sure a homeless drug addict may end up waiting for cancer treatment.

Your boy Trudeau is looking to change the shelters, so get ready for it.

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5 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

No doubt, but the underlying issue was they were Canadian so there was a reason to come.  Not so for others with zero Canadian ties.  There are many who come to the US with full insurance paid who get the best treatment, many Canadian plans will pay for treatments when the locals fail to deliver.

 

Thats the issue with the Canadian plan, people die waiting.

Right, they were lucky enough to be Canadian and therefore had a backup, worst case scenario plan that doesn't involve them going bankrupt or dying in an alley.

In his case, he died anyway, but had he come sooner he'd still be alive.  Poor choice on his part, but leaving your family behind and giving up your business is a tough decision to make.

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33 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

That is true but I wonder what percentage is better in Canada than the US. If you need to be in the top 1/2% to be better off in the US then 99-1/2% of people benefit more from the Canadian system.

It will also depend how you make your money.

A small business gets $500,000.00 at the low tax rate. So you can shelter that in a holding company for quite a while.

Likewise with the low tax rate on stock options. If you work for a publicly traded company, you get a better rate.

I'm really not sure how true the waiting story is now. The older I get the more people I know who have needed health care or their family have. Move people expected a long wait and all were shocked with how quickly they received treatment. 

That being said, most of them are intelligent people with great family support. I'm sure a homeless drug addict may end up waiting for cancer treatment.

I got curious about which were the top technologically ranked cancer hospitals in the world. The contents of the top 30 is surprising. There is one in India. St; Joseph's Health Centre in Toronto is #7 in the world.

http://www.topmastersinhealthcare.com/30-most-technologically-advanced-cancer-centers-in-the-world/

The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto is the second largest in the world for pediatric care.

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9 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said:

Right, they were lucky enough to be Canadian and therefore had a backup, worst case scenario plan that doesn't involve them going bankrupt or dying in an alley.

In his case, he died anyway, but had he come sooner he'd still be alive.  Poor choice on his part, but leaving your family behind and giving up your business is a tough decision to make.

I know a lot people who think they are in the same boat.  Milk it and when they get sick come back to Canada.  Doesn't always work out.:bc:

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I don't get it.  Are we happy or sad about this?  I am personally all for it.  It was never gonna pass the senate anyway.  Let Obamacare fail.

HOWEVER, it does bring up the R's and their inability to prove they can do something when given the chance.  This was priority #1 and again, they are too busy to do something constructive when given a time frame to do so.  Of course, they need more time to consult with their big money donors in the healthcare industry to ensure their money pot is going to be there.  Come to think of it...same with the Dems.

SO now, what to do....what to do.  Obamacare fails.  That's a given.  Now what.  Can anyone say "Single payer system"?

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26 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

I don't get it.  Are we happy or sad about this?  I am personally all for it.  It was never gonna pass the senate anyway.  Let Obamacare fail.

HOWEVER, it does bring up the R's and their inability to prove they can do something when given the chance.  This was priority #1 and again, they are too busy to do something constructive when given a time frame to do so.  Of course, they need more time to consult with their big money donors in the healthcare industry to ensure their money pot is going to be there.  Come to think of it...same with the Dems.

SO now, what to do....what to do.  Obamacare fails.  That's a given.  Now what.  Can anyone say "Single payer system"?

Trumpcare isn't conservative enough for the Freedom caucus even with the massive tax cuts for the super wealthy and you think a single payer system has a chance with these clowns in power?

bwahahaha

:lmao:

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On 3/24/2017 at 1:41 PM, spin_dry said:

why is that shocking? it's basic common sense. 

It's not shocking but it should be some guidelines as how to manage costs.  It simply isn't sustainable hammering 80% of the population for 20% of the people.  We need to take a good hard look at reasonable rationed care.   

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4 hours ago, Highmark said:

It's not shocking but it should be some guidelines as how to manage costs.  It simply isn't sustainable hammering 80% of the population for 20% of the people.  We need to take a good hard look at reasonable rationed care.   

nonsense. this has been the ratio of healthcare function since the romans. the issue here is cost of delivery. jesus christ. why can't people see this? 

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Just now, spin_dry said:

nonsense. this has been the ratio of healthcare function since the romans. the issue here is cost of delivery. jesus christ. why can't people see this? 

I agree and have said that all along but when you got so few taking up so much of the costs it makes sense to look at that as well.  

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