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PERSONAL opinions of an OPP SAVE officer


odot1

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37 minutes ago, odot1 said:

 

Now that I'm home...  Here is the actual wording of the section.  

Permit to be carried

(5) Subject to subsection (6), every driver of a motor vehicle on a highway shall carry,

(a) the permit for it or a true copy thereof; and

(b) where the motor vehicle is drawing a trailer, the permit for the trailer or a true copy thereof,

and shall surrender the permits or copies for inspection upon the demand of a police officer.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 7 (5).

So the answer is still..  yes, a copy will work. 

 

He's heading to Florida though.

I'd feel better having my original. Never know what some state Trooper will accept.

I had to show proof of ownership for my bike to Canada Customs when I came back to Canada.

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8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

He's heading to Florida though.

I'd feel better having my original. Never know what some state Trooper will accept.

I had to show proof of ownership for my bike to Canada Customs when I came back to Canada.

I agree that it's always better to have the original for sure.  Legally speaking though..even in Florida the administrative side of your vehicle is governed by the province in which it's registered.  An example...  you take a trip... while traveling your birthday happens and now your validation sticker is expired..  they could not charge you with anything. It's an Ontario statute and requirement.   We deal with similar issues from Quebec.. 

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4 minutes ago, odot1 said:

I agree that it's always better to have the original for sure.  Legally speaking though..even in Florida the administrative side of your vehicle is governed by the province in which it's registered.  An example...  you take a trip... while traveling your birthday happens and now your validation sticker is expired..  they could not charge you with anything. It's an Ontario statute and requirement.   We deal with similar issues from Quebec.. 

Does Buford T. Justice care though?

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Lol!  Unless he has access to Ontario tickets, the HTA, a court that will accept his ticket.... oh and sworn in as an officer in Ontario, he's kinda out of luck.  But again... original is best.  I always carry my original. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok...  so I've had a request or two to clarify the new "distracted driving" legislation...  So here goes....   

What is it?   Distracted is a misleading label.  So essentially this is what you can't do: Using your phone to talk, text (except via Bluetooth or other hands free system), check maps or choose a playlist while you’re behind the wheel all count as "distracted driving".  There is no new hunt for burger eaters, coffee drinkers etc...  nothing has changed in this regard.  These would only come into play if a collision occurred and the charge would be careless.

Penalties:  If you hold a G1, G2, M1 or M2 licence, and are convicted of distracted driving, you’ll face the same fines as drivers with A to G licences. But you won’t receive any demerit points.

Instead of demerit points you’ll face:

a 30-day licence suspension for a first conviction

a 90-day licence suspension for a second conviction

cancellation of your licence and removal from the Graduated Licensing System (GLS) for a third conviction

to get your licence back you’d have to redo the GLS program

If you have an A, B, C, D, E, F and/or G licence, you’ll face bigger penalties when convicted of distracted driving:

a fine of $490, if settled out of court (includes a victim surcharge and the court fee)

a fine of up to $1,000 if a summons is received or if you fight the ticket in court and lose

three demerit points

Ok...so in English...  If you are in the graduated licencing program you will get a suspension upon conviction.  If you have a regular licence nothing really changes for you except the possibility of higher fines in court upon conviction.  The roadside fine and points accumulation remain the same.  

Exemptions:  When driving, you are not permitted to use hand-held communication and entertainment devices or view display screens unrelated to the driving task, with the following exceptions:

-Calling 9-1-1 in an emergency situation

-When the driver is lawfully parked or has safely pulled off the roadway and is not impeding traffic.

-Commercial and public transit drivers, as well as public service workers who are engaged in the performance of their duties, will be able to view the display screens of mobile data terminals and logistical tracking and dispatching devices. Specified commercial, public transit (includes bus) and public function drivers, and licenced amateur radio operators have been provided an exemption for the hand-held use of two-way ("CB") radios until January 1, 2021.

Other devices not included in the ban:

Viewing a display screen used for collision avoidance systems

Viewing a display screen of an instrument, gauge or system that provides information on the conditions, use and immediate environment of the vehicle or that provides road or weather information

Ignition interlock

Car audio screens that display still images

Devices like hand-mikes and portable radios (walkie-talkies) that do not have a microphone connected to a separate receiver may not be used as hand-held devices, but may be used in a hands-free manner. Drivers may use a lapel button or press a button on the device to transmit or receive voice communication as long as the hand-mike or walkie-talkie is mounted or secured and is not being held while driving.

Viewing display screens of a mobile data terminal is allowed for commercial purposes. These devices provide operational information from a dispatcher or control centre, and are essential to commercial operations, including licensed taxi and limousine services, couriers, tow truck and roadside assistance services. Many public services, including public transit, also rely on these devices.

I know there is potential for some debate on this...   I do not mind answering questions..  I would appreciate as always (and you guys are great for this) that a new thread be made for bashing away at it or the enforcement or "asshole cops, pigs, boot lickers, jackbooted thugs etc.."....   And also as always..  feel free to PM for more personal stuff regarding this...

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!!

Sean

Edited by odot1
lots of stuff!
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I remember hearing a discission on Sirius XM last year ((Road Dog Trucking) about the CB radio exemption in Ontario.

LOL on the disclaimer @ the end. Glad you have a sense of humour.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:43 PM, odot1 said:

If your vehicle has the sticker...your trailer needs one as well. 

Hi odot1, can you point me to a reference for this?  I am in a situation where 1 truck/trailer combination is above 4,500 kg so requires safety inspection stickers whereas my truck with a different trailer is under 4,500 kg.  I can not find any authoritative source which states my second, smaller trailer requires a sticker.  I am sure there are others with a large enclosed trailer and small utility trailer in the same situation. 

All that I can find says that if you meet one of the weight thresholds then you must be stickered.  In this case, I an under so I assume stickers not required.  I can't find anything that says a stickered truck is only permitted to tow stickered trailers.  In my case truck and both trailers are not subject to CVOR and are used strictly for personal purposes, no commerce.

Thanks.

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18 minutes ago, Muddy Tires said:

Hi odot1, can you point me to a reference for this?  I am in a situation where 1 truck/trailer combination is above 4,500 kg so requires safety inspection stickers whereas my truck with a different trailer is under 4,500 kg.  I can not find any authoritative source which states my second, smaller trailer requires a sticker.  I am sure there are others with a large enclosed trailer and small utility trailer in the same situation. 

All that I can find says that if you meet one of the weight thresholds then you must be stickered.  In this case, I an under so I assume stickers not required.  I can't find anything that says a stickered truck is only permitted to tow stickered trailers.  In my case truck and both trailers are not subject to CVOR and are used strictly for personal purposes, no commerce.

Thanks.

What is the weight your truck is registered for?  

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 1:06 PM, odot1 said:

What is the weight your truck is registered for?  

Never looked before.  Says 3,040 kg on the ownership (I guess registered by dealership when I bought it), below the weight going down the road.  Maybe that's meant to be empty weight?  GVWR is 4,173 kg.  Trailer is homemade, so no GVWR plate, but it's registered for 300 kg.  4,173 + 300 < 4,500 so I have concluded that the trailer does not require a sticker to be towed by my truck.

Do I have an issue with the registered weight of my truck since it is lower than what I would actually weight in at?

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19 hours ago, Muddy Tires said:

Never looked before.  Says 3,040 kg on the ownership (I guess registered by dealership when I bought it), below the weight going down the road.  Maybe that's meant to be empty weight?  GVWR is 4,173 kg.  Trailer is homemade, so no GVWR plate, but it's registered for 300 kg.  4,173 + 300 < 4,500 so I have concluded that the trailer does not require a sticker to be towed by my truck.

Do I have an issue with the registered weight of my truck since it is lower than what I would actually weight in at?

The registered weight is fine..  the GVWR is the maximum the vehicle weighs fully loaded.  That includes passengers and load etc...   I'm back to work tomorrow and will talk to one of the experts in this field to give you the right answer,,,  the black/white answer.. no grey areas!

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On 2018-04-09 at 2:37 PM, Muddy Tires said:

Never looked before.  Says 3,040 kg on the ownership (I guess registered by dealership when I bought it), below the weight going down the road.  Maybe that's meant to be empty weight?  GVWR is 4,173 kg.  Trailer is homemade, so no GVWR plate, but it's registered for 300 kg.  4,173 + 300 < 4,500 so I have concluded that the trailer does not require a sticker to be towed by my truck.

Do I have an issue with the registered weight of my truck since it is lower than what I would actually weight in at?

First your trailer is registered below weight unless it’s empty.  Needs to be registered for loaded weight.

second your truck needs to be registered for the fully loaded weight  Plus fully loaded weight of trailer.  Legally speaking but I am not a police officer.

Most pick ups are registered at a empty weight but then again most are grocery getters and never carry cargo.

 

It used to be if your truck has a yellow sticker then the trailer requires one also.  Any trailer you tow.

There also used to be a page in one of the MTO books that stated if your trailer transmits less the 6,000lbs to road no sticker required but I think that changed.

 

 

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On 4/9/2018 at 2:37 PM, Muddy Tires said:

Never looked before.  Says 3,040 kg on the ownership (I guess registered by dealership when I bought it), below the weight going down the road.  Maybe that's meant to be empty weight?  GVWR is 4,173 kg.  Trailer is homemade, so no GVWR plate, but it's registered for 300 kg.  4,173 + 300 < 4,500 so I have concluded that the trailer does not require a sticker to be towed by my truck.

Do I have an issue with the registered weight of my truck since it is lower than what I would actually weight in at?

 

13 hours ago, Sksman said:

First your trailer is registered below weight unless it’s empty.  Needs to be registered for loaded weight.

second your truck needs to be registered for the fully loaded weight  Plus fully loaded weight of trailer.  Legally speaking but I am not a police officer.

Most pick ups are registered at a empty weight but then again most are grocery getters and never carry cargo.

 

It used to be if your truck has a yellow sticker then the trailer requires one also.  Any trailer you tow.

There also used to be a page in one of the MTO books that stated if your trailer transmits less the 6,000lbs to road no sticker required but I think that changed.

 

 

As SKS says, your trailer..unless its a tiny trailer is registered to low.  If you add any load to that trailer you are overweight and potentially in a situation where you could be fined.  Your registration for your truck is still ok IF that is the registered empty weight.  So here is the black/white.   Also..  if the truck is stickered trailer should be stickered, but if it's a small trailer without brakes, etc you would most likely not be stopped.  IF THE TRAILER HAS THE STICKER, THE TRUCK NEEDS THE STICKER.  If the trailer weighs over 2800kg, you must add it to the weight of the truck. 

WEIGHTS:
Gross Weight (GW) - HT A S. 1 (1)
"gross weight" means the combined weight of vehicle(s) and load.
Registered Gross Weight (RGW)- 0. Reg 628 S. 1 (PermiUregistration) HTA 7-14
If trailer weights over 2,800 kilograms, must add it to weight of truck and have an RGW to cover all.
Manufacturers Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR):
What the manufacturer recommends as the max weight (vehicle/occupants/cargo)
Driver's Licences - 0. Reg 340/94 S. 1 (1)
"registered gross weight" means the weight for which a permit has been issued under the Act, the fee for which is based on the weight of the vehicle or
combination of vehicles and load. '
ANNUAL INSPECTIONS (Yellow sticker) - 0. Reg 611 S. 8 (1) & (2)
Deals with combined weights of the same type
CMV defined under HTA 1 (1) (includes pick-ups)
•!• If one of the following is over 4500KG
o Gross Weight (combined actual weight; truck/trailer)
o RGW (Registration/Permit)
o MGVWR (on sticker, inside door)
•!· Truck and trailer require an annual inspection!
For the most part, CMVs are determined by their weight relevant to the section which is being spoken to.
Important Numbers:
Under 4500 (RGW, GW, or MGVWR): regular documents
Over 4500 MGVWR: Annual Inspection required
Over 4500 RGW or actual GW (power unit only): CVOR, Pre-trip, Log Book (possible), Annual Inspection
RGW of 8181 or more: Name on CMV
Over 11793 Actual weight: CAB/I RP permit if from out of province.
Trailer over 1360kg: brakes required
Trailer over 2800kg: register the truck for combined weight of truck and trailer
Trailer weighing less than 2800kg: register truck for actual weight (when attached to trailer/tongue weight)
Lengths: Overhang 1.5m, Max width veh/load 2.6m, Max length Veh 12.5m(single), 23m(combined), 25m
(trains), 40m LCV
 

 

 

Edited by odot1
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6 hours ago, odot1 said:

 

As SKS says, your trailer..unless its a tiny trailer is registered to low.  If you add any load to that trailer you are overweight and potentially in a situation where you could be fined.  Your registration for your truck is still ok IF that is the registered empty weight.  So here is the black/white.   Also..  if the truck is stickered trailer should be stickered, but if it's a small trailer without brakes, etc you would most likely not be stopped.  IF THE TRAILER HAS THE STICKER, THE TRUCK NEEDS THE STICKER.  If the trailer weighs over 2800kg, you must add it to the weight of the truck. 

WEIGHTS:
Gross Weight (GW) - HT A S. 1 (1)
"gross weight" means the combined weight of vehicle(s) and load.
Registered Gross Weight (RGW)- 0. Reg 628 S. 1 (PermiUregistration) HTA 7-14
If trailer weights over 2,800 kilograms, must add it to weight of truck and have an RGW to cover all.
Manufacturers Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR):
What the manufacturer recommends as the max weight (vehicle/occupants/cargo)
Driver's Licences - 0. Reg 340/94 S. 1 (1)
"registered gross weight" means the weight for which a permit has been issued under the Act, the fee for which is based on the weight of the vehicle or
combination of vehicles and load. '
ANNUAL INSPECTIONS (Yellow sticker) - 0. Reg 611 S. 8 (1) & (2)
Deals with combined weights of the same type
CMV defined under HTA 1 (1) (includes pick-ups)
•!• If one of the following is over 4500KG
o Gross Weight (combined actual weight; truck/trailer)
o RGW (Registration/Permit)
o MGVWR (on sticker, inside door)
•!· Truck and trailer require an annual inspection!
For the most part, CMVs are determined by their weight relevant to the section which is being spoken to.
Important Numbers:
Under 4500 (RGW, GW, or MGVWR): regular documents
Over 4500 MGVWR: Annual Inspection required
Over 4500 RGW or actual GW (power unit only): CVOR, Pre-trip, Log Book (possible), Annual Inspection
RGW of 8181 or more: Name on CMV
Over 11793 Actual weight: CAB/I RP permit if from out of province.
Trailer over 1360kg: brakes required
Trailer over 2800kg: register the truck for combined weight of truck and trailer
Trailer weighing less than 2800kg: register truck for actual weight (when attached to trailer/tongue weight)
Lengths: Overhang 1.5m, Max width veh/load 2.6m, Max length Veh 12.5m(single), 23m(combined), 25m
(trains), 40m LCV
 

 

 

Clear as mud....lol

I have noticed that many of the small trailers (single axle) are coming with a brake axle now. My own single axle enclosed trailer I bought last year was ordered specifically without brakes and they called to tell me that they had made a change and were no longer offering them without.

I was looking at some small single axle utility trailers last week and they all had brakes and any of the dual axles all had breakaway brakes.

The reason I was looking was because the mechanic who safeties my trailers told me I had to add the breakaway to my old dual axle because he said it was now a requirement on trailers carrying more than 6000 lbs. Not true. Its only a requirement on newly manufactured trailers according to the dealers I've talked to..........should make for some nice road side arguements with MTO officers in the future.....lol

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3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Clear as mud....lol

I have noticed that many of the small trailers (single axle) are coming with a brake axle now. My own single axle enclosed trailer I bought last year was ordered specifically without brakes and they called to tell me that they had made a change and were no longer offering them without.

I was looking at some small single axle utility trailers last week and they all had brakes and any of the dual axles all had breakaway brakes.

The reason I was looking was because the mechanic who safeties my trailers told me I had to add the breakaway to my old dual axle because he said it was now a requirement on trailers carrying more than 6000 lbs. Not true. Its only a requirement on newly manufactured trailers according to the dealers I've talked to..........should make for some nice road side arguements with MTO officers in the future.....lol

Exactly!!!!!

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On 3/15/2018 at 11:01 AM, Renegade X said:

Hey thanks for the help.  I ended up just taking the original with me.  No issues whatsoever going down with the bike.  I left it down there so I'm sure I will asked a bit more when I go back down to bring it home.

Just an update. I wasn't asked for anything in regards to my bike going down or coming back home. Not one single question.  Probably my good looks that made it that easy..lol

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37 minutes ago, Renegade X said:

Just an update. I wasn't asked for anything in regards to my bike going down or coming back home. Not one single question.  Probably my good looks that made it that easy..lol

I called ahead..   told them to give you a free pass!!!! See...  cops are fkn cool!!!!  :P

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10 hours ago, mxzx121 said:

Are  camper trailers still excluded from the yellow sticker rules?

hmmm.... getting into the inspection rules... what a messy can of worms

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13 hours ago, mxzx121 said:

Are  camper trailers still excluded from the yellow sticker rules?

 

2 hours ago, 02sled said:

hmmm.... getting into the inspection rules... what a messy can of worms

 

19 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Odot 1 can verify but yes they are.

Grey area if you are pulling with a yellow stickered truck.

Soooo...  I just talked to our truck guy.  Campers exempt even if truck has sticker.  

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Hi Odot 1,

Has there been any changes to regulations with respect to trailer hitch ball size?

I was told today by a friend that recently bought a 16 foot enclosed trailer that the dealer told him all enclosed trailers over 14 feet had to have a 2 5/16 inch ball.  The dealer said it was a new law.

I laughed as I doubt any such law would exist as ball size is determined by max load rating hitch required for max load of trailer.

 

Have you heard of any such law?

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9 hours ago, Sksman said:

Hi Odot 1,

Has there been any changes to regulations with respect to trailer hitch ball size?

I was told today by a friend that recently bought a 16 foot enclosed trailer that the dealer told him all enclosed trailers over 14 feet had to have a 2 5/16 inch ball.  The dealer said it was a new law.

I laughed as I doubt any such law would exist as ball size is determined by max load rating hitch required for max load of trailer.

 

Have you heard of any such law?

No one I work with has heard of this either.  I've checked all the regulations and nothing...  

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