odot1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, Algonquin Rider said: So a 12yo can drive a SXS with 4 other kids on a trail even if its Crown or Private land trail? Yup. Under 12 requires parental supervision. Scary, eh?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algonquin Rider Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, odot1 said: Yup. Under 12 requires parental supervision. Scary, eh?? So who is responsible for the liability on Crown Land Trails and ATV Trails on Private Land? Would the Private Land Owners know this risk? A Sled operator on an OFSC Trail is covered with insurance. What about a 10yo driving a SXS with passengers on Crown Land and have an accident. Who is liable? The insured SXS / Parents? Don't the ATV Clubs have to have insurance on Crown Land Trails like the OFAC Trails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 Just now, Algonquin Rider said: So who is responsible for the liability on Crown Land Trails and ATV Trails on Private Land? Would the Private Land Owners know this risk? A Sled operator on an OFSC Trail is covered with insurance. What about a 10yo driving a SXS with passengers on Crown Land and have an accident. Who is liable? The insured SXS / Parents? Don't the ATV Clubs have to have insurance on Crown Land Trails like the OFAC Trails? ATV is where sledding was before OFSC. A few organized trail systems but no unifying body and voice. As for liability all atvs are required to be insured unless it's your atv on your property. I'd assume the operational clubs have isurance akin to OFSC for their trail systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trailmaker Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Odot1 have you ever heard of a "mobile RIDE" Wife goes to an event in Aurora at some restaurant bar, leaving she gets pulled over with in a block Cop "this is a mobile Ride" have you been drinking blah blah blah you've done nothing wrong blah blah WTF Isn't that illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 7 hours ago, 1trailmaker said: Odot1 have you ever heard of a "mobile RIDE" Wife goes to an event in Aurora at some restaurant bar, leaving she gets pulled over with in a block Cop "this is a mobile Ride" have you been drinking blah blah blah you've done nothing wrong blah blah WTF Isn't that illegal? I have actually heard the term. Not necessarily used in this context. In this age of social media where evertbody posts the location of static RIDE check points officers are becoming more creative and fluid in where/when/how they conduct the checks in order to ensure it remains an efficient tool. Aa for the legality of it, driving ihas been ruled a privilege and not a right under the charter. This means thst a vehicle on the highway (the term for any road used by public) is subject to being stopped to ensure the driver is licenced, the vehicle properly documented and insured. The courts took this further and allowed for tge random stopping of vehicles to ensure the sobriety of the driver. As long as the officer is doing either the former or the latter he or she is operating under the parameters of the law. This protection can not be used to simply go on "fishing trips" however, meaning the officer must be able to articulate the reasons for the stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 8 hours ago, 1trailmaker said: Odot1 have you ever heard of a "mobile RIDE" Wife goes to an event in Aurora at some restaurant bar, leaving she gets pulled over with in a block Cop "this is a mobile Ride" have you been drinking blah blah blah you've done nothing wrong blah blah WTF Isn't that illegal? Lucky that wasn't you. Are they setup to test for pot yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trailmaker Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 4 hours ago, odot1 said: I have actually heard the term. Not necessarily used in this context. In this age of social media where evertbody posts the location of static RIDE check points officers are becoming more creative and fluid in where/when/how they conduct the checks in order to ensure it remains an efficient tool. Aa for the legality of it, driving ihas been ruled a privilege and not a right under the charter. This means thst a vehicle on the highway (the term for any road used by public) is subject to being stopped to ensure the driver is licenced, the vehicle properly documented and insured. The courts took this further and allowed for tge random stopping of vehicles to ensure the sobriety of the driver. As long as the officer is doing either the former or the latter he or she is operating under the parameters of the law. This protection can not be used to simply go on "fishing trips" however, meaning the officer must be able to articulate the reasons for the stop. nothing more than "I saw you pull out of that restaurant" either way Thanks Odot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 Little fire vs cop humour... Been a while since I posted in here.. AND....if I create some sort of spin off hate comments... start a new thread please.. I'd like to keep this going...(the question/answer...not the fire bashing..although......... ) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Sounds like my nephew when he was in about Grade 3. There was a female constable visiting his class. After she did her presentation, she asked if any of the kids if they had questions. I guess the nephew put his hand up & she said, "Yes?" To which he replied, "Is that a Glock that you carry?" I don't recall how that was finished, but I imagine her or the teacher were probably taken aback. Edited October 5, 2017 by revrnd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algonquin Rider Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Hey Sean, When you Guy's (SAVE) are on an open OFSC Trail in the Winter that is on Crown Land and an ATV with either tracks or tires is on the trail, what would happen to the ATV Driver? Edited October 5, 2017 by Algonquin Rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Algonquin Rider said: Hey Sean, When you Guy's (SAVE) are on an open OFSC Trail in the Winter that is on Crown Land and an ATV with either tracks or tires is on the trail, what would happen to the ATV Driver? With the phasing out of the Land Use Agreements this has become grey area. Before the agreements made the OFSC agents/occupiers of the land and we could enforce legislation that pertained to them. No trail pass meant easy trespass charge and kicked off trail. Without the agreement. the Crown remains the sole occupier and has no legislation in place for the ATV use on the trails...except of course they are NOT allowed within the boundaries on provincial parks. I have also, in the past charged ATVers with criminal mischief for wrecking the trails intentionally. It was usually settled out of court with restitution being made the riders. We (OPP/SAVE/OFSC/stakeholders) need to figure this out ASAP. I will report back to guys as soon as I get anything substantial. Sean Edited October 6, 2017 by odot1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 05/10/2017 at 8:40 PM, odot1 said: With the phasing out of the Land Use Agreements this has become grey area. Before the agreements made the OFSC agents/occupiers of the land and we could enforce legislation that pertained to them. No trail pass meant easy trespass charge and kicked off trail. Without the agreement. the Crown remains the sole occupier and has no legislation in place for the ATV use on the trails...except of course they are NOT allowed within the boundaries on provincial parks. I have also, in the past charged ATVers with criminal mischief for wrecking the trails intentionally. It was usually settled out of court with restitution being made the riders. We (OPP/SAVE/OFSC/stakeholders) need to figure this out ASAP. I will report back to guys as soon as I get anything substantial. Sean Soooo... This turned out to be incredibly complicated. I finally dug up a number for OFSC (almost impossible). I spoke to their government programs/enforcement guru. The first most bold point he made was the OFSC has nothing to do with grooming or any sort of trail management/issue. He further made it clear the OFSC is an "umbrella corporation" spate from the clubs. As I dug deeper here is what I've found...brace yourselves... Some clubs still have forms of the land user permit (LUP) but this depends greatly on the individual clubs AND the MNR district in which they reside. So for example, OFSC District 2. The L and A Ridge Runners may have an LUP in place but the Bancroft area club may not. What seems to be happening is that the MNR is distancing itself from any form of restricted/regulated access on Crown land. This has an effect of reducing enforcement opportunities when it comes to keeping ATVs off trails within crown land areas. I know that really doesn't completely answer the question on any sort of larger scale area...but it's the best I've got for now. There is a stakeholder meeting soon.. MTO/OPP etc to discuss bringing the MSVA and the ORVA act more in line with each other and perhaps something will come from that. Sorry guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algonquin Rider Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 11:30 AM, odot1 said: Soooo... This turned out to be incredibly complicated. I finally dug up a number for OFSC (almost impossible). I spoke to their government programs/enforcement guru. The first most bold point he made was the OFSC has nothing to do with grooming or any sort of trail management/issue. He further made it clear the OFSC is an "umbrella corporation" spate from the clubs. As I dug deeper here is what I've found...brace yourselves... Some clubs still have forms of the land user permit (LUP) but this depends greatly on the individual clubs AND the MNR district in which they reside. So for example, OFSC District 2. The L and A Ridge Runners may have an LUP in place but the Bancroft area club may not. What seems to be happening is that the MNR is distancing itself from any form of restricted/regulated access on Crown land. This has an effect of reducing enforcement opportunities when it comes to keeping ATVs off trails within crown land areas. I know that really doesn't completely answer the question on any sort of larger scale area...but it's the best I've got for now. There is a stakeholder meeting soon.. MTO/OPP etc to discuss bringing the MSVA and the ORVA act more in line with each other and perhaps something will come from that. Sorry guys!!! Thanks for the info Sean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Wish I had a more definitive answer for you guys... Hopefully the issue(s) will be resolved soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grggade Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 thanks AGAIN Sean for all your time on these topics ,,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 minute ago, grggade said: thanks AGAIN Sean for all your time on these topics ,,,, My pleasure! Looking forward to (hopefully) a better sled season this year! Keep the questions coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Downtown on University Avenue today..... a little out of his jurisdiction, ain't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 23 minutes ago, Puzzleboy said: Downtown on University Avenue today..... a little out of his jurisdiction, ain't he? Lmfao!!! Jut a little!! Saw similar in Montreal over tge summer.... poaching bastards!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 I wonder if this is legit on business or being used in a movie like often happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 1 minute ago, 02sled said: I wonder if this is legit on business or being used in a movie like often happens Movie... No plates on it.. Usually when out of province forces come here for business its done in plain cars or a flight/rental car deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzleboy Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Is that a serious question? No license plates, pylon in front of it..... 26 minutes ago, 02sled said: I wonder if this is legit on business or being used in a movie like often happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 22 minutes ago, Puzzleboy said: Is that a serious question? No license plates, pylon in front of it..... Only glanced at the picture. I didn't give it any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokemerc Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 On 10/4/2017 at 9:13 PM, odot1 said: Little fire vs cop humour... Been a while since I posted in here.. AND....if I create some sort of spin off hate comments... start a new thread please.. I'd like to keep this going...(the question/answer...not the fire bashing..although......... ) A few years back I was getting some firefighting training at work. The instructor said that they always let the over excited police officers secure the area first. If they drop to the ground then the firefighters know it's a dangerous chemical fire and put their oxygen masks on before going forward. He was kidding of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On the eastbound 401 between Ajax & Whitby passing thru the new 412 interchange. I was in the slow lane driving beside the on ramp from the 412 when 3 vehicles that I had passed earlier, drove by on the ramp. Is there any reg' proscribing using an on or off ramp as a passing lane? This isn't the 1st time I've seen something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odot1 Posted December 5, 2017 Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 There is no specific "pass on ramp" but could charge with "pass on right - not in safety" or could stretch it and go with "pass - off roadway" and hope the justice agrees with the interpretation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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