motonoggin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: To date it is. That doesn't mean there isn't an even better tool out there we have yet to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 23, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: That doesn't mean there isn't an even better tool out there we have yet to use. Considering human nature I disagree that its not some form a free market capitalism. Even your Utopia of trading your labor for other things is essentially capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: Considering human nature I disagree that its not some form a free market capitalism. Even your Utopia of trading your labor for other things is essentially capitalism. No it's not. You're confusing trade with capitalism. Trade has been going on since the beginning of time without capitalism and will continue after capitalism dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: All you really need to do is look at human history. Capitalism only emerged in the last few centuries, meanwhile humans have been doing great things for thousands of years. Depends on how you define capitalism I guess. Ancient Rome had their equivalent of shopping malls where merchants sold their goods in a competitive market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, motonoggin said: Engineer's today still don't think they would be able to build many of the 7 Wonders of the ancient world. And it is technology, not capitalism, combined with human ingenuity that has led to such an acceleration of development. All capitalism does is determine who gets paid what for the work that they do Just what would motivate the people to exercise their intellect and ingenuity to accelerate that development? In your utopia they wouldn't receive any more reward for excelling and developing that technology than the person who picks up trash in the public park. Add to the equation who is going to fund all the research in development of the technology without expecting a return on that investment. Better yet where how would anyone be able to amass the funds necessary to fund the R&D if nobody gets anymore than anyone else. Edited February 23, 2017 by 02sled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, 02sled said: Depends on how you define capitalism I guess. Ancient Rome had their equivalent of shopping malls where merchants sold their goods in a competitive market. Well, of course it depends on how you define it. Lmao. You can't just call trade capitalism. Capitalists make money with money. There's no productive activity involved. They basically make money off someone else's labor. It's not to be confused with trade, commerce, free enterprise, market economy, or anything else. 1 hour ago, 02sled said: Just what would motivate the people to exercise their intellect and ingenuity to accelerate that development? In your utopia they wouldn't receive any more reward for excelling and developing that technology than the person who picks up trash in the public park. Add to the equation who is going to fund all the research in development of the technology without expecting a return on that investment. Better yet where how would anyone be able to amass the funds necessary to fund the R&D if nobody gets anymore than anyone else. You're assuming that the only legitimate human motivation is monetary rewards. That sells humanity extremely short. It's actually pretty de-humanizing to see people that way. Carrots and sticks are for livestock, not people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 23, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 23, 2017 Moto in Commutopia what would be the currency and what would be its standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 46 minutes ago, Highmark said: Moto in Commutopia what would be the currency and what would be its standard? Everything would ultimately be free. There may be a universal means of exchange, but anarchists are typically wary of that because currency requires heirarchies and can be used as a tool to exert undue power over others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: Well, of course it depends on how you define it. Lmao. You can't just call trade capitalism. Capitalists make money with money. There's no productive activity involved. They basically make money off someone else's labor. It's not to be confused with trade, commerce, free enterprise, market economy, or anything else. You're assuming that the only legitimate human motivation is monetary rewards. That sells humanity extremely short. It's actually pretty de-humanizing to see people that way. Carrots and sticks are for livestock, not people. So your claim that Capitalism is only a couple of hundred years old would be wrong then since Ancient Rome had bankers that loaned money and made a PROFIT doing that as well as merchants that made bought and sold goods for PROFIT. You didn't answer the question. What would motivate anyone to gain the intellectual knowledge to be able to develop the technology then use that knowledge to do so? In short why would they put in so much when they live the same lifestyle as the person who doesn't feel like doing anything and just sits home all day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 23, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 23, 2017 51 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Everything would ultimately be free. There may be a universal means of exchange, but anarchists are typically wary of that because currency requires heirarchies and can be used as a tool to exert undue power over others. And under this method of self governance we could accomplish all that we have today? You seriously in your heart believe that? Please define this "universal means of exchange?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 23, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, motonoggin said: Well, of course it depends on how you define it. Lmao. You can't just call trade capitalism. Capitalists make money with money. There's no productive activity involved. They basically make money off someone else's labor. It's not to be confused with trade, commerce, free enterprise, market economy, or anything else. You're assuming that the only legitimate human motivation is monetary rewards. That sells humanity extremely short. It's actually pretty de-humanizing to see people that way. Carrots and sticks are for livestock, not people. I've heard it all now. I love reading your delusions of grandeur. It takes money to make money in virtually EVERYTHING. You think I can buy inventory without it? Pay workers even if I paid them a complete share of the profits? Edited February 24, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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