Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: You're clearly out of your depth here. Just shut up, captain keyboard diarrhea. I'm out of my depth? Seriously? You are "triggered". Simmer down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zambroski said: I'm out of my depth? Seriously? You are "triggered". Simmer down. Yes, clearly you aren't grasping the concept of basic economics and you should probably just shut the fuck up. But your obsession won't let you, so you'll keep typing long, rambling screeds based in some weird fantasy and your own skewed perceptions that no one will read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Yes, clearly you aren't grasping the concept of basic economics and you should probably just shut the fuck up. But your obsession won't let you, so you'll keep typing long, rambling screeds based in some weird fantasy and your own skewed perceptions that no one will read. These posts too long for you? I think they've been short. And indeed, a lecture from a socialist on economics is indeed what I need. Face it sweetheart, the closest thing you are going to get to your idea of "utopia" is you and your glee club throwing fits in the streets against inanimate objects. I hope that wasn't too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: So, am I misreading this or are you saying you aren't profitable? You are misreading it. My profit is does not exceed my labor as a direct comparison. You asked do I profit more than my labor costs me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, motonoggin said: How do you expect steady demand for products if no one has money to consume? You can't possibly think that we can continue using debt to prop up consumer demand, can you? I mean, who's going to loan money to someone with no job and no income? I don't buy robots will take 50% of the jobs as the article suggests. At best I could replace maybe 5-10% of my workforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Highmark said: You are misreading it. My profit is does not exceed my labor as a direct comparison. You asked do I profit more than my labor costs me. No, I was asking if you made more off your labor than it costs you and how much that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: I don't buy robots will take 50% of the jobs as the article suggests. At best I could replace maybe 5-10% of my workforce. Regardless, it is predicted that automation will take place of human labor much faster than we can find new jobs for the displaced labor. That means wages fall overall due to simple laws of supply and demand, and will magnify wages shrinking share in the overall aggregate demand equation. So, the question remains, what do we do to counteract that? Capitalists are proposing universal basic income as a way to counteract it. It would likely have to be done through taxation and redistribution. This is a tacit admission of the deep flaws of capitalism. It's incapable of supporting its own demand because it will always seek to reduce labor costs in order to extract more profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) noggin just stfu. it will all self correct. not every manufacturing job is going to robots. robots and other advances also create more jobs. if the cost of widgets get too high for anyone to buy, they'll have to drop prices. take your communist agenda and shove it dude. the only people buying your nonsense are basement dwelling stoners with average grades in east ffrica bird migration pattern majors. all 9 of them Edited February 20, 2017 by Snoslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 fucking guy can't even sell libruls this nonsense, let alone staunch conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: noggin just stfu. it will all self correct. not every manufacturing job is going to robots. robots and other advances also create more jobs. if the cost of widgets get too high for anyone to buy, they'll have to drop prices. take your communist agenda and shove it dude. the only people buying your nonsense are basement dwelling stoners with average grades in east ffrica bird migration pattern majors. all 9 of them It won't self correct. It can't. Wages will continue to stagnate, and even decline once automation starts really accelerating. Every single job that can be replaced with cheaper and more efficient automation will be. Profit seeking will see to it. As wage derived demand continues to shrink, capital will seek to preserve profits by replacing human labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: fucking guy can't even sell libruls this nonsense, let alone staunch conservatives. I'm not trying to sell you shit, I'm showing you how this is all destined to fail and we better start thinking about the next phase because if we don't it's going to get ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: It won't self correct. It can't. Wages will continue to stagnate, and even decline once automation starts really accelerating. Every single job that can be replaced with cheaper and more efficient automation will be. Profit seeking will see to it. As wage derived demand continues to shrink, capital will seek to preserve profits by replacing human labor. there has been advances in manufacturing and other technologies since the beginning of time. what needs to happen is the people who still believe in trickle down, and are fine with more money going to the top, need to wake the fuck up. we'll have a revolution long before people agree to live in your communes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: noggin just stfu. it will all self correct. not every manufacturing job is going to robots. robots and other advances also create more jobs. if the cost of widgets get too high for anyone to buy, they'll have to drop prices. take your communist agenda and shove it dude. the only people buying your nonsense are basement dwelling stoners with average grades in east ffrica bird migration pattern majors. all 9 of them 15 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: fucking guy can't even sell libruls this nonsense, let alone staunch conservatives. He's trying to push through an idea that will never come to pass. Jesus Moto, I'm agreeing with a liberal. How fucked up do you feel now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: there has been advances in manufacturing and other technologies since the beginning of time. what needs to happen is the people who still believe in trickle down, and are fine with more money going to the top, need to wake the fuck up. we'll have a revolution long before people agree to live in your communes. Of course there have been advances that displaced labor, but this will be unprecedented in scale and depth, it will shock the system like never before. So basically what you're saying is more money needs to go to the bottom of the economy, and I agree. The problem is, it won't be possible to accomplish that through taxation due to the fact that the rich own government. Capitalism is beyond reform. If capital can't even come to terms with the need for a UBI, it'll never abandon 'trickle down'. And yes, you're right, then we will have a revolution, and it will be a result of the inability of capitalism to deal with its inherent contradictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, motonoggin said: I'm not trying to sell you shit, I'm showing you how this is all destined to fail and we better start thinking about the next phase because if we don't it's going to get ugly. have you and the other stein supporters gone out and apologized to the valid protesters that you let down, while chasing unicorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zambroski said: He's trying to push through an idea that will never come to pass. Jesus Moto, I'm agreeing with a liberal. How fucked up do you feel now? You're both reactionary on about the same level, so I'm not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Of course there have been advances that displaced labor, but this will be unprecedented in scale and depth, it will shock the system like never before. So basically what you're saying is more money needs to go to the bottom of the economy, and I agree. The problem is, it won't be possible to accomplish that through taxation due to the fact that the rich own government. Capitalism is beyond reform. If capital can't even come to terms with the need for a UBI, it'll never abandon 'trickle down'. And yes, you're right, then we will have a revolution, and it will be a result of the inability of capitalism to deal with its inherent contradictions. and I'm sure the people putting together cars piece by piece said the same thing when the assembly line was created. it will correct, it'll have to. there's also new technologies on the horizon, like solar and other green energy. it'd be nice if you helped the left with reality, instead of pushing fairy dust that nobody is buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 20, 2017 Gold Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 UBI/welfare is trickle down. The rich and middle class pay taxes or the government borrows money and it trickles down into low class in forms of welfare or UBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: have you and the other stein supporters gone out and apologized to the valid protesters that you let down, while chasing unicorns? And this is precisely why you're going to see a destruction of the system. Still playing the partisan game while Rome burns around you. This level of ignorance is all too prevalent amongst establishment liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: And this is precisely why you're going to see a destruction of the system. Still playing the partisan game while Rome burns around you. This level of ignorance is all too prevalent amongst establishment liberals. who in the fuck do you plan on getting aboard your ship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: and I'm sure the people putting together cars piece by piece said the same thing when the assembly line was created. it will correct, it'll have to. there's also new technologies on the horizon, like solar and other green energy. it'd be nice if you helped the left with reality, instead of pushing fairy dust that nobody is buying. Platitudes. Like I said, this will be on a scope and scale never before seen. It will not self correct. 1 minute ago, BOHICA said: UBI/welfare is trickle down. The rich and middle class pay taxes or the government borrows money and it trickles down into low class in forms of welfare or UBI. I mean the level of economic illiteracy here is stunning. I'm surprised you guys can balance a checkbook. The UBI would have to come out of corporate profits in order for it to be a net plus to demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: who in the fuck do you plan on getting aboard your ship? Economic conditions will force everyone my way. It'll become obvious at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoughnut Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: who in the fuck do you plan on getting aboard your ship? emptynoggin will only need a dinghy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, BOHICA said: Guaranteed paychecks could work if we gave the individuals receiving it a purpose in life I can think of many thing they could do for public works for 40 hours a week that isn't all that necessary but would give people a purpose. We had a Premier here that wanted that for those collecting welfare. He called it workfare. The plan was that if you wanted your welfare check you would do something that you were physically able to do in order to "earn" that monthly cheque. Things like clean up a park, trash on the street, do work like some of the current volunteers in libraries or perhaps hospitals, community centres etc. Well most tax payers who were paying the freight thought it was a great idea. The problem was the unions got all upset and cried foul. If anyone was going to clean up a city park it was going to be one of their overpaid city employees and nobody else and similar for any of the other tasks. The other ones that cried foul were those on welfare who bitched about being expected to do something to earn that monthly cheque rather than just collect the handout and run to the liquor store. Edited February 20, 2017 by 02sled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 20, 2017 Gold Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Platitudes. Like I said, this will be on a scope and scale never before seen. It will not self correct. I mean the level of economic illiteracy here is stunning. I'm surprised you guys can balance a checkbook. The UBI would have to come out of corporate profits in order for it to be a net plus to demand. Higher taxes on profits and trickled down to the impoverished... much like we do now with such thing as housing assistance, energy assistance food stamps and healthcare. Those thing are a result of trickle down.... would the likes of Donald trump get a UBI check. If not it's not universal and becomes a trickle on from tax payers to the poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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