ICEMAN! Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SSFB said: Not necessarily. We went from something like 40% of people working on farms to 2%. Imagine what people would say if you asked them in the 1890's what the rest of these people would be doing for jobs and where all the food would come from, they wouldn't have the slightest idea because it's impossible to know what the future will bring. What took them away from the farms? Technology. Farming went from manual labour to automated with tractors etc after the advent of the internal combustion engine. Where did those farms workers go? They moved to the city and got jobs in manufacturing. What's happening in manufacturing? Automation is replacing all the jobs along with AI replacing white collar jobs. Where do people move to when that happens and what do they do? Edited February 17, 2017 by ICEMAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, SSFB said: The fruits of Capitalism.......... Those are human achievements in spite of capitalism, not because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Those are human achievements in spite of capitalism, not because of it. That cannot be. And it hinders your argument tremendously to say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said: What took them away from the farms? Technology. Farming went from manual labour to automated with tractors etc after the advent of the internal combustion engine. Where did those farms workers go? They moved to the city and got jobs in manufacturing. What's happening in manufacturing? Automation is replacing all the jobs along with AI replacing white collar jobs. Where do people move to when that happens and what do they do? The service industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, ICEMAN! said: What took them away from the farms? Technology. Farming went from manual labour to automated with tractors etc after the advent of the internal combustion engine. Where did those farms workers go? They moved to the city and got jobs in manufacturing. What's happening in manufacturing? Automation is replacing all the jobs along with AI replacing white collar jobs? Where do people move to when that happens and what do they do? More jobs supporting the tech industry for one.........Electricians, systems techs, support reps, sales people, account reps. Not to mention all of the jobs that don't yet exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zambroski said: That cannot be. And it hinders your argument tremendously to say so. Nope. Humans don't need capitalism to do great things. 1 minute ago, Zambroski said: The service industry. Lmao. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Those are human achievements in spite of capitalism, not because of it. Is there a chart from any non capitalist countries you'd like to use as a comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: More jobs supporting the tech industry for one.........Electricians, systems techs, support reps, sales people, account reps. Not to mention all of the jobs that don't yet exist. So we're all going to get jobs working on the robots that replaced us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: So we're all going to get jobs working on the robots that replaced us? Yes, just like the farmers who got jobs at factories and shops to build and fix tractors that replaced them on the farms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: Is there a chart from any non capitalist countries you'd like to use as a comparison? Lol. That's a global graph dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: Lol. That's a global graph dude. I know, but there should be a chart from a non capitalist country with good gains that would show your point, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: Lol. That's a global graph dude. Still, same question. Where's the chart for your views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: Yes, just like the farmers who got jobs at factories and shops to build and fix tractors that replaced them on the farms. Uh huh, because we all know the berry pickers just got retrained for tractor school and they all lived happily ever after, the end. Sounds utopian, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Uh huh, because we all know the berry pickers just got retrained for tractor school and they all lived happily ever after, the end. Sounds utopian, but ok. I gave an example on the historical record of humans working on the machines that replaced them, that's what you asked for without saying so. The people proclaiming the impending doom are falling victim to the same flaws in human reasoning that the past generations did. The historical trend is an improvement in the world and there's little reason to think that the trend will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Ughhhh........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: I know, but there should be a chart from a non capitalist country with good gains that would show your point, right? Arguably Russia went from a backwards agrarian wasteland to a global superpower in a matter of decades, so there's that. Not really communism by my standards, but it is by normie standards. But I'm sure you'll say it led to massive death and destruction, which is absolutely true. What will bother me the most is you will say it while denying capitalism has done the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Arguably Russia went from a backwards agrarian wasteland to a global superpower in a matter of decades, so there's that. Not really communism by my standards, but it is by normie standards. But I'm sure you'll say it led to massive death and destruction, which is absolutely true. What will bother me the most is you will say it while denying capitalism has done the same. What percentage of Russia's people were living in poverty before and after? I'm betting the gap isn't nearly as wide. Capitalism didn't cause any of the genocide, government did. Capitalism exists in many cases without genocide. Communism without genocide however is an outlier. Can you name an instance in which genocide exists without government being there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN! Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, SSFB said: More jobs supporting the tech industry for one.........Electricians, systems techs, support reps, sales people, account reps. Not to mention all of the jobs that don't yet exist. There aren't going to be enough jobs that don't exist yet to replace the ones that will be wiped out by robots and AI. It simply will not happen, especially when the disruption will be so widespread across all sectors of the economy and list of professions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, ICEMAN! said: There aren't going to be enough jobs that don't exist yet to replace the ones that will be wiped out by robots and AI. It simply will not happen, especially when the disruption will be so widespread across all sectors of the economy and list of professions. If you told someone in the 1890's that so few people would be working on farms in 30 years they'd say the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN! Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: If you told someone in the 1890's that so few people would be working on farms in 30 years they'd say the same thing. People will end up doing what humans are good at vs machines. Interacting with other people, art, music. Social occupations and pastimes. Manual labour and data crunching/research will be automated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 minute ago, ICEMAN! said: People will end up doing what humans are good at vs machines. Interacting with other people, art, music. Social occupations and pastimes. Manual labour and data crunching/research will be automated. I don't disagree with that. Repetitive jobs will absolutely be outsourced and soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN! Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 https://www.google.ca/amp/bigthink.com/videos/vivek-wadhwa-every-industry-will-be-disrupted.amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, SSFB said: What percentage of Russia's people were living in poverty before and after? I'm betting the gap isn't nearly as wide. Capitalism didn't cause any of the genocide, government did. Capitalism exists in many cases without genocide. Communism without genocide however is an outlier. Can you name an instance in which genocide exists without government being there? Capitalism cannot exist without government. Lmao. The fact is, the vast majority of death and destruction taking place right now is being done by capitalist governments. Nothing in this world is done unless it makes somebody a buck, good and bad. Expecting that kind of system to lead to the best conditions for humanity is completely foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSFB Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, ICEMAN! said: https://www.google.ca/amp/bigthink.com/videos/vivek-wadhwa-every-industry-will-be-disrupted.amp The days of having a job for 30 years without learning new skills are gone. People are going to have to stay on top of things and learn new skills to stay competitive in the job market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN! Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, SSFB said: The days of having a job for 30 years without learning new skills are gone. People are going to have to stay on top of things and learn new skills to stay competitive in the job market. It's tough to even say that. What skills do you invest in? If there is any chance it can be automated, you're doomed and on top of that there won't be enough jobs to go around. This is why universal basic income is being discussed so widely right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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