irv Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) I know I asked this a year or 2 ago but all that info is now gone with the old site. After some early winter furnace issues, I can no longer put this off. Our, likely, 25+ year old Coleman Evcon is on it's last legs and needs to go. I have been leaning towards a Trane but with 5 different models to choose from, how do you know what is right for you? https://www.buttonsheating.com/products/heating/trane I am leaning towards using Button's as I have heard nothing but great things about them, but I am open to other suggestions. They also carry/sell Daikin furnaces, which I assume are also good, but I have never heard of them? https://www.buttonsheating.com/products/heating/daikin Our house is 2,200 hundred square feet. Also considering a new A/C unit as well. Our current one is 17 yrs old and is a 2 ton. I don't know with a 100% certainty, but I think that is too small for this house? Any help/info would be appreciated. Thanks. Edited December 27, 2016 by irv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Why Trane? If I'm not mistaken the parts might be a bit harder to come by and those that can service them might be fewer as well. If memory serves me correctly, you are pushing the limits of a 2 ton AC unit....might as well up size. I installed a keeprite about 12 or so years ago, mostly because that is all I could buy myself without going through an installation vendor, so far so good. Easy to service, lots of service vendors too. Most use the same parts anyways, just different bells and whistles....but for some reason I think trane is slightly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Stoney said: Why Trane? If I'm not mistaken the parts might be a bit harder to come by and those that can service them might be fewer as well. If memory serves me correctly, you are pushing the limits of a 2 ton AC unit....might as well up size. I installed a keeprite about 12 or so years ago, mostly because that is all I could buy myself without going through an installation vendor, so far so good. Easy to service, lots of service vendors too. Most use the same parts anyways, just different bells and whistles....but for some reason I think trane is slightly different. No real reason with the Trane other than I have heard they are good. I have read a bunch of reviews on all kinds of furnaces and a Trane ranks right up there with a few others. Of course, like anything, some do have problems but from what I gather, most are related to the contractor/installation company. I have heard parts are hard to get for Lennox furnaces and only their parts will work at double the prices of most others? I have zero experience with any of the above but I do know 2 people with Trane's and they love them so that is why I am leaning that way but I am still open to suggestions and input. http://www.consumersearch.com/furnaces/best-furnace-brands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Now that you mention Lennox, I think I was mixing the two up...I know my sister had either a Lennox or Trane and what mentioned above was the case for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricked-Toys Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I was told years ago by someone in the business, you want Carrier for your furnace, and Lennox for your A/C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Tricked-Toys said: I was told years ago by someone in the business, you want Carrier for your furnace, and Lennox for your A/C. Just look at this site for sled advice, esp from the brand loyals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, Tricked-Toys said: I was told years ago by someone in the business, you want Carrier for your furnace, and Lennox for your A/C. 5 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: Just look at this site for sled advice, esp from the brand loyals. Every review/blog/site I read all claim who is best but not one agrees with each other. Some have XXX while others have OOO listed. Guess it all comes down to what you personally think based on what you can decipher from all the reviews one reads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Interesting read. This guy detests Lennox however. Trane ranks somewhat low too, but that is based on their cost only as he still thinks they are a quality product. Never heard of Day or Night before, but they sound like the best bang for the buck. Guess I will be shopping some more, but depending on warranty, etc, I still may go with Trane and Button's depending on what they use to convince me? http://asm-air.com/heating/top-10-furnace-brands-of-2016/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Stoney said: Now that you mention Lennox, I think I was mixing the two up...I know my sister had either a Lennox or Trane and what mentioned above was the case for her. It was Lennox furnaces, Stoney. (just in case you didn't read the article?) 10. Lennox Furnaces Tenth on our list of the top 10 furnace brands is Lennox, and we just can’t recommend them. Look, all I am offering you is the truth. I know that Lennox is a “big” name in HVAC, but they are resting on their laurels a bit too much. In the early 90’s, they were the name in HVAC. These days…not so much. I just can’t recommend Lennox furnaces (or air conditioners), and the reasons are simple: they have horrible customer service, and their logistics chain is sub-standard – my biggest issue is the latter. I definitely would not recommend any company that has poor customer service, but looking past that, Lennox has a very serious issue with their logistics chain as well. Think about the other brands I just mentioned…what did they have in common? Come on…I said it more than once…they all used many of the same internal components. What does this mean to you? It means that if your Bryant furnace breaks, and Bryant doesn’t have the part, I’ll walk over to Carrier or Day & Night and get the same exact part and repair your furnace – the same day. But Lennox is not like that. They have very few supply houses, and their technology is completely proprietary. If they don’t have the part, we’ll have to order it for you, and you’ll be without heat for three weeks while you wait on them. In California, big deal – grab a jacket. In Michigan, this is a SERIOUS issue, and I just can’t recommend them. Plus, since they are proprietary, their equipment costs three times as much to repair. “But Tim…I just bought a new Lennox!!! My life is over…did I waste money?” Yes…yes you did. But the good news is, they do make reliable equipment, so even though you paid a lot more than you needed to, it is still decent equipment, which is why it made our list of the top 10 furnace brands and is worth mentioning, even if we don’t recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I was very impressed with my York. Also 2 ton ac is more than enough for your house. Get a new ac as you will get returns on a more efficient unit, unless it is true you get free hydro. And if you do get free hydro why not get an electric boiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 11 minutes ago, Boered said: I was very impressed with my York. Also 2 ton ac is more than enough for your house. Get a new ac as you will get returns on a more efficient unit, unless it is true you get free hydro. And if you do get free hydro why not get an electric boiler. You think? Just seems to run pretty regularly and it sometimes can't keep up (A/C set at 74 but yet house is at 75-76 on real hot days) And lol, no free Hydro, I was just Still doing a bunch of reading on Furnaces so I will look into York a bit closer. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Well, after some more research and a couple quotes, I am still unsure which way to go? I had both Reliance and Button's come by yesterday to sell me what they carry. Reliance guy was wanting to sell me Rheem products, furnace and A/C and the Button guy, Daikin. Reliance is about $244.00 dollars more but I don't believe Rheem is as solid as a Daikin? 10 yrs parts and labor for Rheem, and 12 yrs parts and labor for Daikin. I also did some research on reviews, and to be honest, I was quite surprise at all the negatives I seen concerning Reliance. I even seen a guy I knew, who I contacted, and he told me of the problems. He did say he never got any resolve until he inputted the negative feed back, which is concerning. With Button's reviews, 99.9% were all positive, and there were over 12 pgs of them! Button's is a family run business where as Reliance is more corporate, if you will. Button's is less and I think I will receive better service and I get an extra 2 yrs warranty on both units. Reliance and Rheem was $8,699 with a $650 rebate from the Gov't and Button's was $8,475 with the same rebate. Both seem pricey, or at least more than I was hoping to spend, but it seems though, for both furnace and A/C, that's what the going prices are give or take. Thoughts? EDIT: Changed my numbers above. I was thinking Reliance's quote was around $1,000 dollars cheaper but since the guy from Reliance didn't leave me his quote, or much other info for that matter, it turns out they are a $ couple hundred more! This pretty much seals it for me. Button's it is, unless I hear different from someone else. Edited December 29, 2016 by irv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Edited my numbers above. Reliance and Rheem is MORE expensive, not cheaper than Button's and Daikin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02sled Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) We have had a Keeprite air conditioner on the house for a very long time that just keeps on running like the energizer bunny. They have been around a very long time and also do a lot of commercial installations. I have had the Keeprite roof top condensors for data centre cooling and as far as the roof top condensors are concerned they are the work horse of the industry. Trane also does a lot of commercial heating and cooling. Their Canadian corporate offices are on Gordon Baker Dr (Finch and 404 area). I have used a lot of Trane products for our data centre cooling as well. Both are solid companies that cover both residential and commercial. While others that do residential only are also good products it seems that those who transcend both markets may have larger engineering depts. and may likely apply some of their learnings from the commercial segment to the residential. Edited December 29, 2016 by 02sled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, 02sled said: We have had a Keeprite air conditioner on the house for a very long time that just keeps on running like the energizer bunny. They have been around a very long time and also do a lot of commercial installations. I have had the Keeprite roof top condensors for data centre cooling and as far as the roof top condensors are concerned they are the work horse of the industry. Trane also does a lot of commercial heating and cooling. Their Canadian corporate offices are on Gordon Baker Dr (Finch and 404 area). I have used a lot of Trane products for our data centre cooling as well. Both are solid companies that cover both residential and commercial. While others that do residential only are also good products it seems that those who transcend both markets may have larger engineering depts. and may likely apply some of their learnings from the commercial segment to the residential. I asked exclusively about Trane but the sales guy said, Daikin, currently, is the better deal and it also has 2 extra years of warranty. From the reading I have done, you would not believe how many of these units are one in the same. The only thing different is the name on the outside panel. Like the article I read (there was more than one) it said, of the literally hundreds of units out there, most are built by about 5 different companies only. The thing that's strange, and if you don't do your homework, is you could be paying through the nose for something that can be had for hundreds, if not thousands less, if you didn't know any better. I believe this article discusses it? https://asm-air.com/heating/top-10-furnace-brands-of-2016/ Trane is good, it gets high marks all around, but so is Daikin, from what I have read/learned, so being as it is currently cheaper and has 2 extra years of warranty, I think that is who I am going with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) 37 minutes ago, irv said: Well, after some more research and a couple quotes, I am still unsure which way to go? I had both Reliance and Button's come by yesterday to sell me what they carry. Reliance guy was wanting to sell me Rheem products, furnace and A/C and the Button guy, Daikin. Reliance is about $244.00 dollars more but I don't believe Rheem is as solid as a Daikin? 10 yrs parts and labor for Rheem, and 12 yrs parts and labor for Daikin. I also did some research on reviews, and to be honest, I was quite surprise at all the negatives I seen concerning Reliance. I even seen a guy I knew, who I contacted, and he told me of the problems. He did say he never got any resolve until he inputted the negative feed back, which is concerning. With Button's reviews, 99.9% were all positive, and there were over 12 pgs of them! Button's is a family run business where as Reliance is more corporate, if you will. I know Button's is more, but I think I will receive better service and I get an extra 2 yrs warranty. Reliance and Rheem was $8,699 with a $650 rebate from the Gov't and Button's was $8,475 with the same rebate. Both seem pricey, or at least more than I was hoping to spend, but it seems though, for both furnace and A/C, that's what the going prices are give or take. Thoughts? EDIT: Changed my numbers above. I was thinking Reliance's quote was around $1,000 dollars cheaper but since the guy from Reliance didn't leave me his quote, or much other info either, it turns out they are a $ couple hundred more! This pretty much seals it for me. Button's it is, unless I hear different from someone else. I replaced mine my furnace less than a year ago, a Carrier 100k BTU for $5K plus taxes. They had to install an additional vent pipe to bring it up to code. Are those prices taxes extra? if so they seem a bit high, if not then they are reasonable. I did not have the luxury of shopping around since mine shit the bed in January and we were using the gas fireplaces to keep the place warm. Edited December 29, 2016 by ArcticCrusher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: I replaced mine my furnace less than a year ago, a Carrier 100k BTU for $5K plus taxes. They had to install an additional vent pipe to bring it up to code. Are those prices taxes extra? if so they seem a bit high, if not then they are reasonable. Taxes in. I originally thought Reliance's prices were taxes in but realized, after talking to the sales rep again, he didn't include them, conveniently. Hearing what you paid makes me understand better that prices aren't as low as I would have liked/thought. Throw in a A/C unit and I now see these are the going prices. My neighbor, (in a smaller house) about 4-5, maybe even 6 yrs ago now, paid over $10,000 G's for a new Trane furnace and A/C. I thought he got ripped off big time, and now seeing what the going prices are, I can confirm, with a 100% certainty, that he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just booked with Button's. $7,825 tx's in and the rebate included. A/C: http://daikincomfort.com/products/air-conditioners/dx16sa Furnace: http://daikincomfort.com/products/gas-furnaces-90/dm96vc It will be great to have peace of mind and likely much lower energy bills as well. Thanks for the help/advice, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Wow that's a lot of money, but I know what the going Rate for a furnace at a supply house is and most furnaces are the same general idea your paying for a name and warranty on them air conditioners generally all have Copeland compressors in them so really just paint colour after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Gman said: Wow that's a lot of money, but I know what the going Rate for a furnace at a supply house is and most furnaces are the same general idea your paying for a name and warranty on them air conditioners generally all have Copeland compressors in them so really just paint colour after that. Yeah, it certainly is! Not sure what most most use but Daikin uses a scroll compressor, what ever that is? Like I stated above, 100's of units out there, (both furnaces and A/C units), but only about 5 manu's. If it wasn't for the extra warranty and the company that's installing them, I may have went cheaper but with no plans on moving in the near future, it will be peace of mind knowing I got something that has a decent reputation and a great warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Scroll is just the type of compressor and after I typed that I realized you were thinking daikin and yes they manufacture there own compressors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Noticed today that Home Depot sells Trane furnaces.....I wonder if they sell to the general public? They sell gas HWH's so I assume they must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Gman said: Scroll is just the type of compressor and after I typed that I realized you were thinking daikin and yes they manufacture there own compressors You sound like you're in the know, Gman? What's your thoughts on Daikin? 47 minutes ago, Stoney said: Noticed today that Home Depot sells Trane furnaces.....I wonder if they sell to the general public? They sell gas HWH's so I assume they must. Button's is an installer for 3 Home Depots my sale manager said. He didn't say anything other than that but I know, with a lot main brand products, they are built to a different spec or a store spec only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 New furnace and A/C were installed yesterday. Can't believe how quiet this new furnace is! Still figuring some things out, namely the thermostat. Not sure if this is right though, as, for example, we set the temp to 67 but the furnace will not come on until it sees 65? I set it last night to 65 before bed but when I woke this morning, it was at 63, which is a tad cold imo! There are a ton of different programs/features on it so maybe something is out of wack with it or maybe my wife or I did something to screw it up? Other than that, the guys did a great job! Not a speck or dust/dirt anywhere, no banged walls, marks on floor, nothing. Very professional installers, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 56 minutes ago, irv said: New furnace and A/C were installed yesterday. Can't believe how quiet this new furnace is! Still figuring some things out, namely the thermostat. Not sure if this is right though, as, for example, we set the temp to 67 but the furnace will not come on until it sees 65? I set it last night to 65 before bed but when I woke this morning, it was at 63, which is a tad cold imo! There are a ton of different programs/features on it so maybe something is out of wack with it or maybe my wife or I did something to screw it up? Other than that, the guys did a great job! Not a speck or dust/dirt anywhere, no banged walls, marks on floor, nothing. Very professional installers, imo. There should be an indicator on the thermostat if its calling for heat, otherwise its likely the wife. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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