Paramuir Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 So been working on adding some insulation to my attic to help with some ice damming. Found that I have fiberglass tub surrounds one in each bathroom. Above the surround in the attic there was no drywall or cement board or anything. Just some vapor barrier that wasn't even sealed. I could reach through and touch the fiberglass shower she'll. This seems very strange to me. I added vapor barrier and made sure it was sealed with tuck tape and added more Batts above it. How should this have been installed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Tough to exactly understand what you are asking but as long as there is insulation and a solid (sealed) vapor barrier behind the tub, there is zero reason to have sheetrock there. In fact, what you have is the preferred and standard way to install a tub or shower surround. If you sheetrocked it first that would mean you'd need two layers of sheetrock going on the wall after the tub install. Nothing wrong with that but it's unnecessary and more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taillight Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 why 2 layers of drywall? why not blue board or cement board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 If I understand, you have one of those shower enclosures that has walls and a ceiling as part of the tub/shower assembly? The missing and sealed vapour barrier would be my only concern, especially in the bathroom with all that hot humid air that would be escaping and going up into the attic. The drywall on the ceiling above the finished fiberglass shower would not be needed and may have have not been installed for cost reasons as noted above or the clearance between the floor to truss, did not allow for it based on the shower enclosure dimensions. I know you have been dealing with that ice damming for a while, if I am correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Yes many years of ice damn battle. Yes above the ceiling of the tub surround there was vapor barrier but no board of any kind and it wasn't even sealed. Didn't know if with the fiberglass surround they figured it was sealed and no tuck tape was needed. Seems poor to me After speaking with more insulation guys this is the last hung they suggested to do. So I have gone up and put vapor barrier in between the truss and sealed it better then added Batts in the area where the bathrooms are too. New roof this fall with extra vents. So hope this solves the issues. I know adding more blown in would be a good idea to. U measured and I have around 11 ices and it's r40 but I think new standard is like 17 inches or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Paramuir said: Yes many years of ice damn battle. Yes above the ceiling of the tub surround there was vapor barrier but no board of any kind and it wasn't even sealed. Didn't know if with the fiberglass surround they figured it was sealed and no tuck tape was needed. Seems poor to me After speaking with more insulation guys this is the last hung they suggested to do. So I have gone up and put vapor barrier in between the truss and sealed it better then added Batts in the area where the bathrooms are too. New roof this fall with extra vents. So hope this solves the issues. I know adding more blown in would be a good idea to. U measured and I have around 11 ices and it's r40 but I think new standard is like 17 inches or something When I did my garage I am pretty sure I put in around 20 inches of blown insulation....likely should have added more, but my garage does a good job of keeping the heat, for a garage with a shitty non air tight garage door.... Sealed vapour barrier is so important....making spray foaming the walls so much more attractive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'm no expert when it comes to insulation, but when I was doing the "attic" above my workshop, I was told to add rafter vents to keep the soffit clear of insulation: https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.raft-r-mate-attic-rafter-vents---rigid-extruded-polystyrene.1000503435.html The ones that I used were wider than those pictured & were stapled to the underneath the rafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 11 minutes ago, revrnd said: I'm no expert when it comes to insulation, but when I was doing the "attic" above my workshop, I was told to add rafter vents to keep the soffit clear of insulation: https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.raft-r-mate-attic-rafter-vents---rigid-extruded-polystyrene.1000503435.html The ones that I used were wider than those pictured & were stapled to the underneath the rafter. Yes, a must have....otherwise your air movement is restricted. You also need to install blocking or something to prevent the blown insulation from falling down into the soffit area....unless you use batts, than not needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Yes I he baffles and blockers.....this has been going on for years but basically have to try on fix then wait for winter right.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, Paramuir said: Yes I he baffles and blockers.....this has been going on for years but basically have to try on fix then wait for winter right.... Hey, winter is here....you livin in a cave ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 So after all my attic work appears I am still getting some melting....can't tell if there is a damn under it normally it would be alot worse so the insulation and vapor barrierI added helped abit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Tired to upload images but the upload keeps failing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 You need a picture resizer as they are likely too big for uploading here? https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=picture resizer windows I am also currently dealing with ice dams, and have been for more than a few years now. I had a look this summer and realized, when I had my roof done 10+ yrs ago, that the rookers installed new bathroom vents on my roof but didn't connect them to the exhaust fans!! I need to get up there or need to have someone get up there and connect these but the room/area is tight and a bunch of insulation will have to be removed in order to create some room. In the mean time, I have taped off the inside exhaust fans and told my wife and son to leave a crack in the bathroom door and/or a crack in the window to help the steam/heat escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Ya had that issues first then new exhaust pipe installed and insulated by me. The last try was insulting between the roof truss and new vapor barrier. Also got a new roof with more vents still looks like a damn and I don't have my heat cables up as the roofers finished and it snowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Ya had that issues first then new exhaust pipe installed and insulated by me. The last try was insulting between the roof truss and new vapor barrier. Also got a new roof with more vents still looks like a damn and I don't have my heat cables up as the roofers finished and it snowed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Paramuir said: Ya had that issues first then new exhaust pipe installed and insulated by me. The last try was insulting between the roof truss and new vapor barrier. Also got a new roof with more vents still looks like a damn and I don't have my heat cables up as the roofers finished and it snowed I purchased a bucket of these last winter but I am unsure if they work or work as good as they suggest? I just threw 2 up there last week but with the fluctuating temps it's hard to tell if they actually do anything but it's all I have currently. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/roof-melt-tablets-0596978p.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 So maybe I should roof rake it now.....you can see my cables hanging as it snowed and I couldn't get up again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Paramuir said: So maybe I should roof rake it now.....you can see my cables hanging as it snowed and I couldn't get up again Yep, for sure! Any excess snow you can remove will obviously not contribute to more/bigger ice dams and allow the sun to help melt away the dam when it's not too cold. I purchased one a few years ago too and use on the other side of the roof where it's easier to get too. The real problem side is high up and that is why I use those pucks. Lots of vids/info on Youtube. More here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roof+ice+dam+fixes Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 On 12/19/2016 at 8:18 AM, Taillight said: why 2 layers of drywall? why not blue board or cement board? Six in one......well, sort of, I am not a fan of "moisture prevention rock". Depends on what the plan is for finish material. On 12/19/2016 at 8:33 AM, Paramuir said: Yes many years of ice damn battle. Yes above the ceiling of the tub surround there was vapor barrier but no board of any kind and it wasn't even sealed. Didn't know if with the fiberglass surround they figured it was sealed and no tuck tape was needed. Seems poor to me After speaking with more insulation guys this is the last hung they suggested to do. So I have gone up and put vapor barrier in between the truss and sealed it better then added Batts in the area where the bathrooms are too. New roof this fall with extra vents. So hope this solves the issues. I know adding more blown in would be a good idea to. U measured and I have around 11 ices and it's r40 but I think new standard is like 17 inches or something I think people get too worked up about ice dams. If the roof was done properly and has 6 feet+ going the slope of a membrane (ice and water), well...let'r build up and melt off when ready as long as it isn't doing damage to soffits or gutters. And I hate gutters too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramuir Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Yes Los of ice and water barrier there brand new roof 3 weeks ago. However last winter started to bend my gutter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoney Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Zambroski said: I think people get too worked up about ice dams. If the roof was done properly and has 6 feet+ going the slope of a membrane (ice and water), well...let'r build up and melt off when ready as long as it isn't doing damage to soffits or gutters. And I hate gutters too. I agree with this....ice damns will still form depending on the season pattern and the slope of the roof, regardless of the air flow in the attic. But some ice dams you see, are clearly caused from some serious ventilation issues and should be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, Stoney said: I agree with this....ice damns will still form depending on the season pattern and the slope of the roof, regardless of the air flow in the attic. But some ice dams you see, are clearly caused from some serious ventilation issues and should be fixed. Yep. A quick drive through any neighborhood will show who knew what they were doing when properly venting and insulating and who didn't. It's like those folks at the home improvement joints on the weekend heading out with a rented blower or tons of insulation. You just know they are gonna fuck stuff up because they have no idea what they are doing. All they think is "how hard can it be to add insulation? I can do that!" Fuck venting and airflow dynamics! OOOOPS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irv Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 46 minutes ago, Zambroski said: I think people get too worked up about ice dams. If the roof was done properly and has 6 feet+ going the slope of a membrane (ice and water), well...let'r build up and melt off when ready as long as it isn't doing damage to soffits or gutters. And I hate gutters too. If it hasn't happened to you then I disagree, to point. In our old house (built in the 40's) we had severe ice dams where the water actually started dripping through the ceiling. It was a nightmare and a quick installation of more insulation and the clearing of ice from the gutters. It wasn't fun!! Our latest house, when I had the roof done, 10+ yrs ago, we had the ice and water shield installed from gutter to the peak on the cathedral side but only 6 feet, or what the ever the code now says, on the left side of the house. Colored me paranoid but after having to deal with the mess at my old house, I more than concerned with our new one and wish I had of had the shield installed all the way to the peak on other side. It builds up right where the bathrooms are and of course that side doesn't receive a whole lot of sun (faces the east but neighbors house blocks the morning sun) so I get very little melting to help dissolve the dam. Obviously, I should have dealt with this when I noticed it this past summer, (not from a lack of trying) but with the very limited room I got claustrophobic trying to climb up in there. Guess this spring I will be calling someone to do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, irv said: If it hasn't happened to you then I disagree, to point. In our old house (built in the 40's) we had severe ice dams where the water actually started dripping through the ceiling. It was a nightmare and a quick installation of more insulation and the clearing of ice from the gutters. It wasn't fun!! Our latest house, when I had the roof done, 10+ yrs ago, we had the ice and water shield installed from gutter to the peak on the cathedral side but only 6 feet, or what the ever the code now says, on the left side of the house. Colored me paranoid but after having to deal with the mess at my old house, I more than concerned with our new one and wish I had of had the shield installed all the way to the peak on other side. It builds up right where the bathrooms are and of course that side doesn't receive a whole lot of sun (faces the east but neighbors house blocks the morning sun) so I get very little melting to help dissolve the dam. Obviously, I should have dealt with this when I noticed it this past summer, (not from a lack of trying) but with the very limited room I got claustrophobic trying to climb up in there. Guess this spring I will be calling someone to do it for me. No I agree...the nightmare is amazingly expensive. I recently helped a buddy pull a roof off of an older home that was "remodeled" just six years ago with a new addition and new roof. We tore off really nice lifetime architectural shingles that were in fantastic condition only to find everything else was fucked and done by idiots. The water damage just started to show through the ceiling from ice dams. The amount of rot and damage was EXTENSIVE. We tore it all apart, replaced joists and rafters and re-insulated and buttoned it all up tight as a drum. My point was/is. If it was all done CORRECTLY with a solid structure, ice dams are not a problem and can be expected and controlled pretty easily. Side note...these older houses that were built "colonial" style with no overhangs were idiotic to build in a winter region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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