whats the OFSC trying to sneak by us now?

[kevinmxz700]

In an effort to try and help clubs that are experiencing increased difficulties and can no longer keep up with the increased accountability, paperwork, loss of volunteers, and insufficient funds to keep their grooming equipment functioning, just prior to the 2015 convention last September the OFSC Board of Governors (BOG) introduced a proposal to member clubs called “More on The Snow” (MOTS). The details of MOTS had yet to be worked out by convention time but basically the proposal would involve consolidation of revenues, equipment, assets, and the eventual dissolution of clubs as individual “not for profit” entities. Feedback from member clubs very early on in the process revealed to the Board of Governors (BOG) that clubs weren’t going to vote in favour of a proposal that contained no detail. To that end, the BOG was given the go ahead by member clubs to “proceed in principal only” while they worked out details prior to the 2016 convention this September where the plan would be put to a vote.
On May 17, 2017, members of club boards across the province were given the opportunity to watch a webinar which described the OFSC Board of Governors progress thus far. I have to say, KLSC board members in attendance were not impressed. We were not given much detail but the following briefly describes the highlights of what was presented:
splitting up some districts to reduce numbers which will involve ours getting one more club
Club bank accounts will be closed and all monies turned over to the District
Future permit revenues will remain with the District. (most of this past seasons payments to clubs were already withheld)
Bulk purchasing for the district (comment……inevitably, KLSC local purchasing will be gone. Do we then expect our local merchants to continue to support our club?)
Six new paid positions at the OFSC level will be created. (inevitably, additional paid staff will be required at the district level to deal with the increased workload….part time support was already needed this past season)
It was strongly suggested at the 2015 convention that all clubs fold as “not for profit” organizations. The OFSC has since lightened up on this however at the May 17, 2016 information session we were told point blank that if KLSC didn’t fold and turn over ownership to all of our assets, including our Equipment Building, then money from future permit sales would be withheld and we would have to fundraise to keep it. There obviously seems to be a backstory to what’s going on as we’re getting conflicting information. AND it’s never and never will be known as a CLUB HOUSE!
…
While this may seem like a good idea to some, directors of the KLSC don’t see it that way. Rather than dealing directly with clubs that are having difficulties of various natures and determining how to solve those local issues, the OFSC Board of Governors are taking an approach that, simply described, is painting all clubs with the same brush. (does amalgamation ring a bell). One part of the MOTS initiative that I believe all eight clubs in our district find distressing and unworkable is the planned reduction of groomers in our district. I say “planned” reduction with tongue in cheek because we already seem to be in full swing on an initiative that was supposed to be “in principal only”. The proposed five year plan for the reduction of groomers in our district would see 22 groomers reduced to 14. In year one, our district has to get rid of five older groomers to get one new one. Interestingly enough, year one of the “plan in principle” is now behind us and our district fleet is down to 18.
The reduction thus far didn’t affect KLSC but as it now stands, the proposed plan for year two (2016/17) will. As of this writing, the proposal for next winter will see a neighbouring club loose one of their two groomers permanently and KLSC would groom some of their trails for them. The neighbouring club isn’t happy about this nor are we. Our groomers can’t be in two places at the same time and inevitably, we believe trails will suffer as a result. ie: When our trails are pounded beyond recognition on a good Saturday, we want both of our groomers out on our trails Saturday night, not on someone else’s.
And this is just the start as our fleet still need to get down to 14 in total. Not one club in our district can see reductions to those levels, while at the same time maintaining the numbers of trails in the district to the level that snowmobilers expect and deserve. One more thing that’s taking place that our members should be aware of independently from MOTS is the proposed sale of permits totally on-line onl. The OFSC has proposed to the MTO (OFSC needs their approval) that snowmobile permits be available only on-line. While this might sound ok because most of us do this already, think about those who aren’t able to for one reason or another. Believe it or not, some people don’t have computers or internet while others simply don’t want to give credit card information on-line. These folks won’t have any other option. Consider too, that some of our vendors like to have permits available for customers as a convenience to their customers or to act as a draw to get them in the door, etc. Also think about the many people across the province who, for whatever reason, don’t buy a permit until they get out on the trail. The trail patrol person stopping them won’t have permits available for sale and won’t even be able to point to the local vendor where one could be bough. That sledder will be on his/her way and may never buy one.
As my tone likely demonstrates, KLSC directors are less than happy about what is presently taking place. While we may be scolded for disseminating too much info to our members and will undoubtedly be accused of not getting on board and singing kumbaya, we feel it’s important to let you, our members, the people who are the backbone of the OFSC, the ones who pay the bills, know just how your Directors feel. KLSC is a success story and we feel that going the suggested route will undoubtedly undermine our ability to keep it that way.

[Owls Nest Lodge]

Well said,  Whats next?

[02sled]

You referenced the online sales only for permits and some not having internet access or wanting to give out credit card numbers online. Don't forget there are people also who simply don't have credit cards for various reasons. It's just a wrong thing to do. If it is so right then why has the province not put plate renewal online only 

[steve6]

Its 2016, and you have people who own thousands in snowmobile equipment, go trail riding/stop at places to eat, or go fishing, pick up accessories, items , junk, misc crap but cant pay with a credit card? Of the 80,000 permit buyers you might be 25 users that cant actually do it, but 25,000 will complain. They are trying to get the manipulation and mistakes and paper work away from people who are not paperwork people. There should be no need for trail wardens to have permits, the people should have a permit before they hit the snow.

Also, I have no issue if you receive a new groomer they make you decommission the old ones, lots of clubs would keep trying to maintain the old one as well, which costs money and time for 'something that has been replaced'.

There seems like some shitty back history related to KLSC that most of us will never know.

[02sled]

4 hours ago, steve6 said:

Its 2016, and you have people who own thousands in snowmobile equipment, go trail riding/stop at places to eat, or go fishing, pick up accessories, items , junk, misc crap but cant pay with a credit card? Of the 80,000 permit buyers you might be 25 users that cant actually do it, but 25,000 will complain. They are trying to get the manipulation and mistakes and paper work away from people who are not paperwork people. There should be no need for trail wardens to have permits, the people should have a permit before they hit the snow.

Also, I have no issue if you receive a new groomer they make you decommission the old ones, lots of clubs would keep trying to maintain the old one as well, which costs money and time for 'something that has been replaced'.

There seems like some shitty back history related to KLSC that most of us will never know.

And you have lots of people that aren't flush with cash, or either choose not to use credit cards online, after all that credit card information never gets compromised does it? Or lots of people with bad credit and therefore don't have credit cards available to them. Just look at the proliferation of collection agencies out there. I embrace the technology solutions out there as it provided me a very good living but not everyone is of that generation that can't survive without their smart phone in their hand every waking minute of the day and does everything online.

[soupkid]

MOS has to be passed at convention this year to proceed to the mentioned above.

District realignment is going to happen, nothing to do with MOS

[grizz]

I understand the pain this gentlemen in this club is experiencing.  The overhaul is long over due, but having everyone in one basket is to hide, for what has really happened over the years.  Large club houses is metropolitan areas (large urban areas) for years have been pocketing permit funds to the tune 000,000.00 and could not spend it on just rails.  There are some pretty good looking club houses out there with six digit accounts. They might be the permit account, but rather named as the club house account.

 Ganaraska has a great trail system and groom it extensively and should be one of the clubs recognized for it.  Then we look at the Snowbirds in Barry's Bay, grooming is extensive and so are the trails.  Large area with few permit sales.  Even other clubs from other areas that had a surplus gave money to the Snow Birds and were slammed for it, as the money did not remain in the district.  In those years when no snow, and only 2 clubs groomed.  

What was recognized years ago as a new comer volunteer, the OFSC is very complex and is driven to protect and directed by very few members and large clubs, with some Districts voting as one for all clubs.  Clubs view permit sales as there own and the allocation was brutal and heavily favoured for the club. For instance, the more permit sales the more money the club received. Example 3000 permits times 220.00 equals 660,000.00, club retains 80% with little to no trails to groom per year.  Creative accounting ensued, large club houses, some had room for a groomer to be stored.  Since the clubhouse is owned by the club, the groomer is part of maintaining the trails as permit cost are allocated, the club house is not.  Therefore charging rent or a lease agreement to store the groomer in the club house is part of the trail cost.  Effectively your club house is now being maintained with little to no fund raising.  Having a large permit bank account as not-for-profit, CRA takes a dim view of.  However through the Information Act, one can see the transactions.

Do not speak out about this or the accounting of club houses, as witnessed even lawyers as volunteers try to understand and get put aside or shelved, never mind if know anything about accounting or Corporate Structure.

They are a strong organization if they can stay united at the top with a few clubs and members supporting them, but it seems now good cracks in the system are making it's way through.  There needs to be more people like this gentleman that can have a voice and let it known, but it may cost him dearly as a volunteer.  IT IS TIME FOR REAL CHANGE and I for one agree with his sentiments, LET THE PERMIT HOLDERS KNOW, after all we are the ones that pay for the wages or the OFSC.

Glad for change, but all clubs are not as all others.  The system was the RICH got RICHER and the POOR that had trails GOT POORER.  Where do people ride when asked at a district meeting when certain clubs have no good conditions?  You would not believe the scape goat answers they relied on.  The survey's answered by Snowmobilers do not travel they ride on club house trails.   

[spoiled brat]

Interesting, the OFSC is sorely in need of some basic transparency. It's really hard to get information on the state of clubs and the plan going forward. For example, where I like to sled....the Kearney/Sand Lake area, there is tons of snow but only south river is open for riding yellow. I assume the clubs are overwhelmed with snow and struggling to open trails. I left a message with the local club president, waiting for a call back.

Is there a groomer revolt happening?

[spoiled brat]

I see south River just switched to green, I guess they have groomers and volunteers.

[Reevester]

44 minutes ago, spoiled brat said:

Interesting, the OFSC is sorely in need of some basic transparency. It's really hard to get information on the state of clubs and the plan going forward. For example, where I like to sled....the Kearney/Sand Lake area, there is tons of snow but only south river is open for riding yellow. I assume the clubs are overwhelmed with snow and struggling to open trails. I left a message with the local club president, waiting for a call back.

Is there a groomer revolt happening?

Almaguin club updates their website almost daily.

 

http://www.adsc-snow.org/

[Kev144]

2 minutes ago, Reevester said:

Almaguin club updates their website almost daily.

 

http://www.adsc-snow.org/

if you recall when jack use to update it, it was usually doom and gloom every time  

[02sled]

1 hour ago, spoiled brat said:

Interesting, the OFSC is sorely in need of some basic transparency. It's really hard to get information on the state of clubs and the plan going forward. For example, where I like to sled....the Kearney/Sand Lake area, there is tons of snow but only south river is open for riding yellow. I assume the clubs are overwhelmed with snow and struggling to open trails. I left a message with the local club president, waiting for a call back.

Is there a groomer revolt happening?

 

1 hour ago, spoiled brat said:

I see south River just switched to green, I guess they have groomers and volunteers.

Attend a club meeting or volunteer. You can find out whatever you want to know. There is much more than just a bunch of light fluffy snow required to open a trail. In that area there is lots of rock that needs lots of snow to cover up. The early snow we had didn't pack well. A lot of clubs reported it was like pushing through a bowl full of sugar. Then there's all the low lying wet spots / muck that hadn't frozen over and no frost in the ground. All factors. There would be countless complaints and potentially some liability had a club indicated a trail as available then someone got stuck and or hurt in a 150 foot long stretch of muck or trying to cross 3 foot deep water running across a trail.

Add to the fact that the people in the clubs are VOLUNTEERS. A majority with jobs and families which all have demands on their time particularly during the Christmas season. This includes club presidents and the executive.

Perhaps you would like to volunteer to help the existing volunteers which for many clubs are already overworked.

A tip of the helmet and a big thank you to all of the volunteers that create and maintain the trails the vast majority of people take for granted.

[spoiled brat]

I offered to volunteer in my phone message to the cub President, I am also a landowner for a short patch of the D trail. But thx for the info

Edited December 28, 2016 by spoiled brat

[lastzrt]

Clavin has a lot of info about a lot of things....

Edited December 28, 2016 by lastzrt

[revrnd]

Those of us old enough to remember can say they rode the trails before the clubs starting grooming because they needed the packing. Nowadays w/ the whole insurance & liability concerns, the trails have to be pristine like a new ramp on the 407 before they can be yellow.

Last week when I rode the railbed to LSP I almost got stuck just by pulling off the groomed trail. I can't imagine what the trails were like in the bush. 

Around Apsley we had a foot of powder & there was no frost in the ground. I imagine any water holes on the trails would've only had a couple of inches of ice before we started getting snow. We were in doing some trail work north of here using UTVs & we were going thru water that was about a foot deep.