Ohio State wacko was guess what

[motonoggin]

1 minute ago, Snake said:

"We're all equal. Now go make me a chicken pot pie."

"I'm so uninformed on the subject that I still think we'll have to share toothbrushes and won't have stop signs in a more free and equal society."

[motonoggin]

2 minutes ago, Snake said:

How does that work with 300,000,000 people?

Collective evolution of human thought.

[motonoggin]

[Cold War]

5 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

"I'm so uninformed on the subject that I still think we'll have to share toothbrushes and won't have stop signs in a more free and equal society."

To have a fair and equal society we are going to have to take away from those who have more and they are not going to give it up voluntarily.

Fair question?

28 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Just like in a union.

.  

[motonoggin]

Just now, Cold War said:

To have a fair and equal society we are going to have to take away from those who have more and they are not going to give it up voluntarily.

Fair question?

.  

*Free and equal

And yes, we will have to expropriate the bourgeoisie who haven't yet evolved.

[Highmark]

22 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

I'm not opposed to collectivising any production from the land, but someone has to make it produce something before that can happen. 

 

You are a fraud and a phony and I just proved it.   How about your pot business?  Shouldn't that be shared by ALL people?

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

What happens when those of free will, who have chosen this path you outline Moto, decide they do not like the direction and want to go back? Why does the free will of those who want capitalism not have the same standing as your ilk? Why is one greater than the other? Are they not both theories and beliefs in the end? Wouldn't the most fascist thing possible be the restriction of free will based off belief structure? The good of many, in your opinion, still then enslaves/kills a minority by force to enact your views. How is that not just fascism from the direction of another ideology? Everyone is "equal" unless of course you don't agree in which instead of class discrimination a much more dangerous idea of free thought discrimination is enacted. You say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to overthrow. They say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to continue capitalism. If the latter is fascism so is the first. 

[Highmark]

18 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

You actually subscribe to that bullshit?  I guess you never turned a profit on your pot business?

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

How can you justify selling something from the land for profit that is the property of all man under your ideology? I get you have to "survive" capitalism, but have you exceeded the needs of survival (air, water, food, shelter, safety) through profiteering? Is there excess in your life? How can hypocrisy not be assigned? You own a car, internet, phones, weapons beyond those of pure safety that are well into the realm of excess. Just trying to understand your way of thinking when it comes to survival. Not trying to attack, just learn. 

[motonoggin]

Just now, Highmark said:

You are a fraud and a phony and I just proved it.   How about your pot business?  Shouldn't that be shared by ALL people?

You proved no such thing.

Other than your penchant for logical fallacy and false pretense.

Ultimately all means of production will be collectively owned and collectively run. There will be minimal hierarchies still present, but only those necessary to maintain safety and efficiency. 

No one will starve or freeze to death because they aren't capable of surviving in a capitalist society. People will be free to use their labor and talent how they see fit, and will be willing to share the fruits of their labor with others, just as others will share with them.

Obviously this won't work with guys like you still wandering around being fucking predators, so that part has to change.

It's a multigenerational struggle.

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What happens when those of free will, who have chosen this path you outline Moto, decide they do not like the direction and want to go back? Why does the free will of those who want capitalism not have the same standing as your ilk? Why is one greater than the other? Are they not both theories and beliefs in the end? Wouldn't the most fascist thing possible be the restriction of free will based off belief structure? The good of many, in your opinion, still then enslaves/kills a minority by force to enact your views. How is that not just fascism from the direction of another ideology? Everyone is "equal" unless of course you don't agree in which instead of class discrimination a much more dangerous idea of free thought discrimination is enacted. You say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to overthrow. They say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to continue capitalism. If the latter is fascism so is the first. 

I'd like Moto to share with us society's where the masses have done better under his system than they have under free market capitalism.  Nobody is saying some don't get left behind, rather by choice or by some other reason.   But there is NO CASE in human history where the masses were helped more than free market capitalism economies.  

“Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn’t run on greed? You think Russia doesn’t run on greed? You think China doesn’t run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it’s only the other fellow who’s greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn’t construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn’t revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you’re talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it’s exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.” 
― Milton Friedman

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

You proved no such thing.

Other than your penchant for logical fallacy and false pretense.

Ultimately all means of production will be collectively owned and collectively run. There will be minimal hierarchies still present, but only those necessary to maintain safety and efficiency. 

No one will starve or freeze to death because they aren't capable of surviving in a capitalist society. People will be free to use their labor and talent how they see fit, and will be willing to share the fruits of their labor with others, just as others will share with them.

Obviously this won't work with guys like you still wandering around being fucking predators, so that part has to change.

It's a multigenerational struggle.

You cannot honestly believe that is possible?  Where in recorded history has it previously?

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

2 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

You proved no such thing.

Other than your penchant for logical fallacy and false pretense.

Ultimately all means of production will be collectively owned and collectively run. There will be minimal hierarchies still present, but only those necessary to maintain safety and efficiency. 

No one will starve or freeze to death because they aren't capable of surviving in a capitalist society. People will be free to use their labor and talent how they see fit, and will be willing to share the fruits of their labor with others, just as others will share with them.

Obviously this won't work with guys like you still wandering around being fucking predators, so that part has to change.

It's a multigenerational struggle.

All of this goes beyond human nature. Do you kill the masses to appease the few? Or do you feel the idea of ownership is only maintained by a select and small minority? I don't understand how one justifies the killing of millions to level the field to their preconceived level of acceptable profiting is not fascism in its own way? Anything past basic survival needs can be argued as profiting? Why take more from the earth than bare essentials of survival? Why do anything outside that? 

[Cold War]

7 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What happens when those of free will, who have chosen this path you outline Moto, decide they do not like the direction and want to go back? Why does the free will of those who want capitalism not have the same standing as your ilk? Why is one greater than the other? Are they not both theories and beliefs in the end? Wouldn't the most fascist thing possible be the restriction of free will based off belief structure? The good of many, in your opinion, still then enslaves/kills a minority by force to enact your views. How is that not just fascism from the direction of another ideology? Everyone is "equal" unless of course you don't agree in which instead of class discrimination a much more dangerous idea of free thought discrimination is enacted. You say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to overthrow. They say it's for the greater good, so it is justifiable to continue capitalism. If the latter is fascism so is the first. 

That is what the guy who wrote the Cookbook is now saying.

 

[motonoggin]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

You cannot honestly believe that is possible?  Where in recorded history has it previously?

Yes, I don't think humanity needs a king. 

You do.

That's why I'm an anarchist and you aren't. 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Just now, motonoggin said:

Yes, I don't think humanity needs a king. 

You do.

That's why I'm an anarchist and you aren't. 

What king do you refer to? Capitalism? Would not the adherence to your libertarian communist ideals just be a king of a different means of control? You need to help me understand that. I am not trying to attack here, only understand. 

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

Yes, I don't think humanity needs a king. 

You do.

That's why I'm an anarchist and you aren't. 

That is a crock of shit.  Minimal hierarchies are still hierarchies with people at different levels.  Care to redefine your new govt?

"There will be minimal hierarchies still present, but only those necessary to maintain safety and efficiency." 

hi·er·ar·chy

ˈhī(ə)ˌrärkē/

noun

plural noun: hierarchies

1. a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

[racer254]

11 hours ago, Mainecat said:

Adam Lanza was Italian

Did you get that statistic about the success rate yet?  Was this one properly vetted?

[Snake]

24 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

*Free and equal

And yes, we will have to expropriate the bourgeoisie who haven't yet evolved.

My god this is pure gold.

[Highmark]

Just now, Snake said:

My god this is pure gold.

This is an MC like beat down.  

[motonoggin]

5 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

How can you justify selling something from the land for profit that is the property of all man under your ideology? I get you have to "survive" capitalism, but have you exceeded the needs of survival (air, water, food, shelter, safety) through profiteering? Is there excess in your life? How can hypocrisy not be assigned? You own a car, internet, phones, weapons beyond those of pure safety that are well into the realm of excess. Just trying to understand your way of thinking when it comes to survival. Not trying to attack, just learn. 

I wouldn't sell any of it, I would give it freely to any who asked as long as I had it to spare.

And I don't agree that I have exceeded anything. Our goal isn't JUST survival day to day, but survival of our ideas and ultimately self actualization. I believe that will be easier for humanity to reach in the absence of capitalism, but I don't think we should cease to strive for self actualization before capitalism dies.

Clearly capitalism works well for SOME, but not all. Therein lies the problem. It is not capable of meeting humanity's needs and relies on exploitation of labor.

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

I wouldn't sell any of it, I would give it freely to any who asked as long as I had it to spare.

And I don't agree that I have exceeded anything. Our goal isn't JUST survival day to day, but survival of our ideas and ultimately self actualization. I believe that will be easier for humanity to reach in the absence of capitalism, but I don't think we should cease to strive for self actualization before capitalism dies.

Clearly capitalism works well for SOME, but not all. Therein lies the problem. It is not capable of meeting humanity's needs and relies on exploitation of labor.

Good God you are a hypocrite.  

[motonoggin]

6 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What king do you refer to? Capitalism? Would not the adherence to your libertarian communist ideals just be a king of a different means of control? You need to help me understand that. I am not trying to attack here, only understand. 

Any unjustified and illegitimate hierarchy.

An example of a justified hierarchy would be a command structure under a revolutionary war. 

A peacetime example would be a surgeon giving orders in an operating room. 

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

That is a crock of shit.  Minimal hierarchies are still hierarchies with people at different levels.  Care to redefine your new govt?

"There will be minimal hierarchies still present, but only those necessary to maintain safety and efficiency." 

hi·er·ar·chy

ˈhī(ə)ˌrärkē/

noun

plural noun: hierarchies

1. a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

You are clearly committed to misunderstanding literally everything. Maybe shut up for a second.

[motonoggin]

Highmark: "Ha ha, moto opposes hierarchies but still stops at stop signs! What a phony anarchist!"

[motonoggin]

12 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What king do you refer to? Capitalism? Would not the adherence to your libertarian communist ideals just be a king of a different means of control? You need to help me understand that. I am not trying to attack here, only understand. 

Here's a meme, too, that I am posting unironically that says it better than I can.