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Basement floor drain/sewer smells.


irv

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In our basement in our laundry room we have a floor drain, which I assume most households would have, and we periodically get a sewer smell from it.
My routine has been to fill a bucket with hot water with some dish soap, vinegar, bleach, etc then dump it down the drain. I assumed due to lack of use, the P trap was drying out.

Today, looking further into things, I did some reading about a clean out hole and noticed the ones I seen all had a cap on them to stop sewer smells from coming back into the house.

In these pics you will notice ours doesn't but you can also see what looks like weeping tile inside this side pipe/clean out spot so I am stuck wondering what to do?

The floor opening drain is 4 inches as is the clean out hole. I am confused on this inner weeping tile and what it's purpose is?

What I am afraid of is, if I block/cap this hole and because of the weeping tile, will I be blocking something off? Could this possibly be from our outside weepers and could they possibly drain to this floor drain? I have never heard water draining into it but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't, does it?

So if this is just an inner weeper for some reason and it doesn't drain from here, what can I use to block/cap this off? My dilemma is both holes are 4" inches. Is there something that is available that I will be able to get down there, turn 90 degrees then cap this clean out hole off?

I've looked at a few plugs but because both holes are the same size, it is going to be difficult (maybe?) to get something down there to do

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They make an expandable plug, sometimes called a dollar plug they have a wing nut on top and a rubber expansion plug that expands when you tighten the wing nut.  They also make inflatable plugs.

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19 minutes ago, 1jkw said:

 

They make an expandable plug, sometimes called a dollar plug they have a wing nut on top and a rubber expansion plug that expands when you tighten the wing nut.  They also make inflatable plugs.

I have been looking at those and am curious which one to go with but because the floor drain and the vent drain (if that's what it is?) are both 4 inch in diameter, I am unsure if I'll be able to get anything big enough down in there to do the trick?

I am also concerned about that black weeping tile that is inside that lower hole? What I am afraid of is, that is from the outside weepers and if I block that hole off, it will create problems elsewhere?

I have never heard water draining from there before but since this drain is a bit far away, maybe it does and I just don't know it?

It's peculiar, imo, why this weeping tile is inside this drain/vent/clean out hole? And, is the hole with the weeper in it really a clean out/vent hole?

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39 minutes ago, irv said:

I have been looking at those and am curious which one to go with but because the floor drain and the vent drain (if that's what it is?) are both 4 inch in diameter, I am unsure if I'll be able to get anything big enough down in there to do the trick?

I am also concerned about that black weeping tile that is inside that lower hole? What I am afraid of is, that is from the outside weepers and if I block that hole off, it will create problems elsewhere?

I have never heard water draining from there before but since this drain is a bit far away, maybe it does and I just don't know it?

It's peculiar, imo, why this weeping tile is inside this drain/vent/clean out hole? And, is the hole with the weeper in it really a clean out/vent hole?

Hard to know how it was done.  You can also put a what they call a self trapping drain lid. These have a small bowl under the lid that the edge of the drain top has on it to act as a trap, you would always need to keep a little water under them.

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Looks like a drain tile inlet vs. floor drain for sanitary system.  Normally, they would operate as separate systems.  Sanitary sewer would have a trap drain as you expected.

Do you have anyway to verify if the two systems operate as one.  A simple drain tile system actually really doesn't need a surface drain.  Do you have a sump pump?  If that is truly just for drain tile, you can plug it pretty much any way that works.

If you have sanitary sewer running through perf under your floor, that is a whole other problem.  It seems unlikely.  That would be wrong in so many ways.

 

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I have a floor drain connected to the washer and laundry sink.  Occassionally it will start to smell with the stagnant water in the trap. A bucket or two of water normally takes care of it.  I don't worry about it.  We are on a septic system.

My dad puts expandable plugs in all the basement drains as a precaution to keep water from the sanitary sewer from backing up. He keeps them in all the time. That's one option you may consider.

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36 minutes ago, 1jkw said:

Hard to know how it was done.  You can also put a what they call a self trapping drain lid. These have a small bowl under the lid that the edge of the drain top has on it to act as a trap, you would always need to keep a little water under them.

Thanks. I'll have to Google that to see exactly what that is?

18 minutes ago, favoritos said:

Looks like a drain tile inlet vs. floor drain for sanitary system.  Normally, they would operate as separate systems.  Sanitary sewer would have a trap drain as you expected.

Do you have anyway to verify if the two systems operate as one.  A simple drain tile system actually really doesn't need a surface drain.  Do you have a sump pump?  If that is truly just for drain tile, you can plug it pretty much any way that works.

If you have sanitary sewer running through perf under your floor, that is a whole other problem.  It seems unlikely.  That would be wrong in so many ways.

 

It looks like that to me as well. 

I wouldn't know how to go about checking if the 2 systems operate as one? And no, no sump pump. Of all the searching I have done, I have yet to see anything quite like this.

What concerns me about plugging that is if I cause problems somewhere else? Like I mentioned, I have never heard water draining into there before but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't? 

 

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5 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said:

I have a floor drain connected to the washer and laundry sink.  Occassionally it will start to smell with the stagnant water in the trap. A bucket or two of water normally takes care of it.  I don't worry about it.  We are on a septic system.

My dad puts expandable plugs in all the basement drains as a precaution to keep water from the sanitary sewer from backing up. He keeps them in all the time. That's one option you may consider.

I really don't think anything drains to this drain? It is in our laundry room and I have ran the basin/washing machine while watching/listening and I have never seen nor heard anything. 

When I do add a bucket or 2 of hot water, this seems to take care of it for a month or 2 so maybe my P trap is just drying out? The thing is, though, is this drain strictly in case of a flood? I would assume it is a sewer line as well?

It's a head scratcher for sure! 

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https://www.amazon.ca/Technical-Products-Swimming-Winter-Freeze/dp/B00O2ADN5S/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=4+inch+winterizing+plug&qid=1575818192&sr=8-1

 

That hole is probably connected to the weeping tile that likely surrounds the footing of the concrete form. Plugging it will have no affect as to how your weeping system functions..but if something in the house lets go, the water has nowhere to go

Some people will drain laundry tubs into the weeping system, instead of the septic system...my last house was plumbed that way...not a good idea in the long run. Soap, lint, junk can plug up the big O perforated pipe or sock pipe over time. Nothing can fix that but excavation and replacement

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Some times window well drains can be tied into a open site drain in your basement? The only way you can find out for sure where it goes, is to send a camera with a locator on it. Most plumbers have them and they are also available at some tool rental places. Looking at the pic again,it’s a corrugated 4” pipe,that most likely goes to window well or footing drains? I wouldn’t plug it. 

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It is tough to verify if you can't get to outlet with your drainage system.  The old gurgle test might give you an idea.  It isn't very scientific though.  Do a big surge of flow into the closest sanitary inlet.  Put your ear at the drain and listen.  Hopefully you don't hear any gurgling or water flow.

There are quite a few temp plug options for the drain.  The big box stores usually have the smaller diameter stuff, but not the larger diameter you would need.  I measure the pipe and go to the plumbing supply shops.  Nice thing about a temp plug is the option to remove and replace with a permanent solution.  You can test drain flows on your sanitary system by using a good temp plug on that drain.(It would be bad news if the drain is acting as a vent somehow).  The only reason I mention that is for the possibility that the two systems are connected.  Don't even want to speculate on that solution.  It wouldn't be pretty.

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12 minutes ago, irv said:

Thanks. I'll have to Google that to see exactly what that is?

It looks like that to me as well. 

I wouldn't know how to go about checking if the 2 systems operate as one? And no, no sump pump. Of all the searching I have done, I have yet to see anything quite like this.

What concerns me about plugging that is if I cause problems somewhere else? Like I mentioned, I have never heard water draining into there before but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't? 

 

I'm assuming your home is older? In older homes it was allowed to run your foundation drain tile into the side of a floor drain like you have but it is illegal in most areas due to the fact that they don't want clear water going down the sanitary because it has to go to a sewage treatment plant and during heavy rains, storm water can overwhelm sanitary sewers. Do not plug that drain tile or you could end up with water in your basement. I don't know how the codes are in your area but in my area back in the 90's our city mandated a Clear Water Separation code and I did alot of those conversions, most of them required blocking or eliminating the drain tile from the sanitary sewer and routing them to a sump pump.

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20 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said:

I have a floor drain connected to the washer and laundry sink.  Occassionally it will start to smell with the stagnant water in the trap. A bucket or two of water normally takes care of it.  I don't worry about it.  We are on a septic system.

My dad puts expandable plugs in all the basement drains as a precaution to keep water from the sanitary sewer from backing up. He keeps them in all the time. That's one option you may consider.

Might want to rethink that...sending laundry water into the weeping system is shitty long term.

I lived in a wet area, with a septic system that was not built well. The laundry got vented into the weeper system, so not to tax the septic..it eventually plugged with junk. I had 10 acres, so I used a pump and container to pump the laundry water to the back 40 in a french drain.

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8 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

https://www.amazon.ca/Technical-Products-Swimming-Winter-Freeze/dp/B00O2ADN5S/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=4+inch+winterizing+plug&qid=1575818192&sr=8-1

 

That hole is probably connected to the weeping tile that likely surrounds the footing of the concrete form. Plugging it will have no affect as to how your weeping system functions..but if something in the house lets go, the water has nowhere to go

Some people will drain laundry tubs into the weeping system, instead of the septic system...my last house was plumbed that way...not a good idea in the long run. Soap, lint, junk can plug up the big O perforated pipe or sock pipe over time. Nothing can fix that but excavation and replacement

Thanks for the link. That looks perfect and exactly what I am looking for. :bc:

Why would they run the outside weeper into the house and like in my pics, this is off to the side of what I would assume is the main drain below it so I am confused with your statement that the water will have no place to go?

Certainly not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand this a bit better? 

 

6 minutes ago, awful knawful said:

Are you rural or residential?

Rural the floor drain usually ties to weeping tile and goes into a French drain or ditch.

Residential, some go to storm sewers and some to the waste sewer, depending on community. Some are also  like rural when no inspector around.

 

Residential, so I am also thinking this goes to the curb/city sewer but I can't understand why the weeper was run inside like it is?

5 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

Poor Murphy’s oil soap straight up in the trap of the drain that is drying out. It will last for years of none use and is safe to use on all pipes and septics.

Thanks for the tip. My wife likes that stuff for cleaning, etc, so I may just try that if I can't figure out exactly what is going on?

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3 minutes ago, favoritos said:

It is tough to verify if you can't get to outlet with your drainage system.  The old gurgle test might give you an idea.  It isn't very scientific though.  Do a big surge of flow into the closest sanitary inlet.  Put your ear at the drain and listen.  Hopefully you don't hear any gurgling or water flow.

There are quite a few temp plug options for the drain.  The big box stores usually have the smaller diameter stuff, but not the larger diameter you would need.  I measure the pipe and go to the plumbing supply shops.  Nice thing about a temp plug is the option to remove and replace with a permanent solution.  You can test drain flows on your sanitary system by using a good temp plug on that drain.(It would be bad news if the drain is acting as a vent somehow).  The only reason I mention that is for the possibility that the two systems are connected.  Don't even want to speculate on that solution.  It wouldn't be pretty.

No way the weeper and septic are connected...even if the house was built by morons...but they do make better morons every day

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Just now, irv said:

Thanks for the link. That looks perfect and exactly what I am looking for. :bc:

Why would they run the outside weeper into the house and like in my pics, this is off to the side of what I would assume is the main drain below it so I am confused with your statement that the water will have no place to go?

Certainly not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand this a bit better? 

 

Residential, so I am also thinking this goes to the curb/city sewer but I can't understand why the weeper was run inside like it is?

Thanks for the tip. My wife likes that stuff for cleaning, etc, so I may just try that if I can't figure out exactly what is going on?

Should be a solid pipe out to weeper.

It was cheaper, easier and wrong the way it's done.

Can you see the p trap? Otherwise I doubt there is any. 

Musty smell is from ground coming through the black weeping.

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5 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

Might want to rethink that...sending laundry water into the weeping system is shitty long term.

I lived in a wet area, with a septic system that was not built well. The laundry got vented into the weeper system, so not to tax the septic..it eventually plugged with junk. I had 10 acres, so I used a pump and container to pump the laundry water to the back 40 in a french drain.

Pretty sure it is all connected to the septic.

The weeping system would go to my sump pump. It definitely doesn't go to the sump pump.  Even the floor drain next to the sump pump goes to the septic.

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2 minutes ago, irv said:

Thanks for the link. That looks perfect and exactly what I am looking for. :bc:

Why would they run the outside weeper into the house and like in my pics, this is off to the side of what I would assume is the main drain below it so I am confused with your statement that the water will have no place to go?

Certainly not disagreeing with you, just trying to understand this a bit better? 

 

Residential, so I am also thinking this goes to the curb/city sewer but I can't understand why the weeper was run inside like it is?

Thanks for the tip. My wife likes that stuff for cleaning, etc, so I may just try that if I can't figure out exactly what is going on?

I drive in my spare time a concrete truck. I see this stuff every day. Big O weeper pipe runs the perimeter of the footing, and in spots is T'd into big O that runs under or through the footing, into spots on the floor, before the concrete floor get poured. The basement is filled with 3/4 stone, usually at least a few inches, then the floor gets poured. If the house is in a clay environment, more stone is used..sand not so much

This allows the hydraulic pressure of water around the house, underneath as well the ability to drain so it does not get to the inside of the basement

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9 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

Some times window well drains can be tied into a open site drain in your basement? The only way you can find out for sure where it goes, is to send a camera with a locator on it. Most plumbers have them and they are also available at some tool rental places. Looking at the pic again,it’s a corrugated 4” pipe,that most likely goes to window well or footing drains? I wouldn’t plug it. 

I never thought of that but that is a possibility? 

Yes, it is exactly like weeping tile I believe? I am afraid of plugging it as well but if it is just a clean out hole, then that's a different story.

9 minutes ago, favoritos said:

It is tough to verify if you can't get to outlet with your drainage system.  The old gurgle test might give you an idea.  It isn't very scientific though.  Do a big surge of flow into the closest sanitary inlet.  Put your ear at the drain and listen.  Hopefully you don't hear any gurgling or water flow.

There are quite a few temp plug options for the drain.  The big box stores usually have the smaller diameter stuff, but not the larger diameter you would need.  I measure the pipe and go to the plumbing supply shops.  Nice thing about a temp plug is the option to remove and replace with a permanent solution.  You can test drain flows on your sanitary system by using a good temp plug on that drain.(It would be bad news if the drain is acting as a vent somehow).  The only reason I mention that is for the possibility that the two systems are connected.  Don't even want to speculate on that solution.  It wouldn't be pretty.

I will try that right shortly. 

7 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

I'm assuming your home is older? In older homes it was allowed to run your foundation drain tile into the side of a floor drain like you have but it is illegal in most areas due to the fact that they don't want clear water going down the sanitary because it has to go to a sewage treatment plant and during heavy rains, storm water can overwhelm sanitary sewers. Do not plug that drain tile or you could end up with water in your basement. I don't know how the codes are in your area but in my area back in the 90's our city mandated a Clear Water Separation code and I did alot of those conversions, most of them required blocking or eliminating the drain tile from the sanitary sewer and routing them to a sump pump.

Built in 74.  

That is what I am afraid of. 

1 minute ago, awful knawful said:

Should be a solid pipe out to weeper.

It was cheaper, easier and wrong the way it's done.

Can you see the p trap? Otherwise I doubt there is any. 

Musty smell is from ground coming through the black weeping.

I am pretty sure there is one as water is always below that side pipe that you can see in the pics. The soapy water you see is where I just dumped 4 gallons of hot water/soap into the drain. Definitely 2 lines/holes but the upper one with the weeping tile is the one I am/was hoping was just a clean out spot. Judging by the info so far, I don't think it is, sadly.

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8 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said:

Pretty sure it is all connected to the septic.

The weeping system would go to my sump pump. It definitely doesn't go to the sump pump.  Even the floor drain next to the sump pump goes to the septic.

 Both systems should be segregated..Weeping systems take rain water, hydraulic pressure away from the house and septic. Septic should just deal with the shit, grey water.

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