spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, $poorsledder$ said: Sikorsky has been working with an autonomous helicopter, are now doing a fly by wire setup for the old Blackhawk so that a kit can be retrofitted for it. Im sure F35 has been built for this Pilot support systems cost a lot and add unnecessary complexity. It’s also in vogue to kill people using the most impersonal methods possible. The sterile society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 14, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said: I saw this in the theater when it came out and thought is was just badass! 🤣 Same and when I was recruited by the Navel Academy to play baseball I was extremely excited. Wanted nothing more than to fly fighter jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, spin_dry said: Pilot support systems cost a lot and add unnecessary complexity. It’s also in vogue to kill people using the most impersonal methods possible. The sterile society. Pilots aren't going away but there will be more and more unmanned aircrafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Iceman has seen better days.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, frenchy said: Iceman has seen better days.... He’s got some weird disease is what I’ve read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Jimmy Snacks said: Nope...just going by the articles I read. You have knowledge of these things Cousin Carl so what's your take on the F 35 as far as performance, cost, delays....etc.... The F35 and the F22 are not typical planes as we have seen in the first four generations of fighters. Most of the cost has nothing to do with the airframe but rather the systems that have been created no emmission detection and situation awareness. The gap between a 4th gen fighter and a 5th is much wider than it was between 3rd and 4th gen fighters. I have read more than most about the issues the F35 and F22 have had during development and deployment and none of it surprised me as these types of issues have been part of most every new plane development (accept for the F15) since the beginning of aviation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 14, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Highmark said: Sad day not knowing your Tog Gun facts. Before you know it you will be getting Roadhouse facts wrong. The ultimate take away your man card mistake. Age and paint fumes....wait...what now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchy Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, spin_dry said: He’s got some weird disease is what I’ve read. think he had/has cancer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted June 14, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 Thunderheart is a great flick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 14, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: The F35 and the F22 are not typical planes as we have seen in the first four generations of fighters. Most of the cost has nothing to do with the airframe but rather the systems that have been created no emmission detection and situation awareness. The gap between a 4th gen fighter and a 5th is much wider than it was between 3rd and 4th gen fighters. I have read more than most about the issues the F35 and F22 have had during development and deployment and none of it surprised me as these types of issues have been part of most every new plane development (accept for the F15) since the beginning of aviation. TY sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted June 14, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Highmark said: Same and when I was recruited by the Navel Academy to play baseball I was extremely excited. Wanted nothing more than to fly fighter jets. Whoa...Naval Academy...nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, frenchy said: Pilots aren't going away but there will be more and more unmanned aircrafts. The F35 and F22 are designed from the beginning to be quarter backs for drones of all types and even fire air to air and air to ground missiles and bombs from other planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said: The F35 and the F22 are not typical planes as we have seen in the first four generations of fighters. Most of the cost has nothing to do with the airframe but rather the systems that have been created no emmission detection and situation awareness. The gap between a 4th gen fighter and a 5th is much wider than it was between 3rd and 4th gen fighters. I have read more than most about the issues the F35 and F22 have had during development and deployment and none of it surprised me as these types of issues have been part of most every new plane development (accept for the F15) since the beginning of aviation. The bugs may or may not be worked out with the f35. That remains to be seen. The core issue, and you know this, is operational costs. The target of $25k per hour is never going to be reached. Current operational costs of the f35 is $35k per hour. The F16 by contrast is $8k per hour. The older workhouse A10 is down to $6k. I know that comparing the A10 to the F35 isn’t apples to apples, but these jets aren’t only outrageously expensive to purchase, but the maintenance costs are blindingly cost prohibitive. Now let’s talk about the supply chain problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said: I saw this in the theater when it came out and thought is was just badass! 🤣 it was badass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, spin_dry said: The bugs may or may not be worked out with the f35. That remains to be seen. The core issue, and you know this, is operational costs. The target of $25k per hour is never going to be reached. Current operational costs of the f35 is $35k per hour. The F16 by contrast is $8k per hour. The older workhouse A10 is down to $6k. I know that comparing the A10 to the F35 isn’t apples to apples, but these jets aren’t only outrageously expensive to purchase, but the maintenance costs are blindingly cost prohibitive. Now let’s talk about the supply chain problems. The per plane cost has come way down now which has lead to more orders because the gap in money between high end 4th and 4.5 gen fighters like the eurofighter and Raffal is not that great. Plus the F35 could do missions with half as many planes compared to an F16. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA Contributing Member $poorsledder$ Posted June 14, 2019 USA Contributing Member Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 hours ago, spin_dry said: Pilot support systems cost a lot and add unnecessary complexity. It’s also in vogue to kill people using the most impersonal methods possible. The sterile society. The demo video I saw used an autonomous heli to fly equipment into an environment that had a biohazard. https://www.theverge.com/transportation/2019/3/5/18250996/sikorsky-autonomous-helicopter-flying-taxi-lockheed Stuff being made will be bolt on, ready to go. Impersonal? They are killing people far away with drones...…. For now it is being talked about as "pilot assist". What do you think the next stepis? Igor Sikorsky envisioned the helicopter to save people, Lockheed got a hold of it and they are strapping more bombs/missiles/whatever on it than ever. He must be rolling in his grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 14 hours ago, spin_dry said: And they’re buying a maintenance nightmare. The big money maker for Lockheed with be the maintenance costs on these flying white elephants. New stealth coating after each flight. Crazy. again your story is caused off of a 2011 document . you do understand why they build test and modify this stuff over extended time don't you? you also understand we most likely already are working on perfecting a model you nor any one else has no fucking clue about don't you? you only see what they want you to see unless we go to war and even then it takes time to out our new tec to the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
small-bore Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 4 hours ago, frenchy said: Iceman has seen better days.... W What the fuck is that?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmeeAgain Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 hours ago, frenchy said: Maverik, Merlin, Iceman and Hollywood got in to one about 20 years ago.... Actually been 33 years! Does time fly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Danger Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 4 hours ago, frenchy said: Iceman has seen better days.... Iceman? More like Methman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Ez ryder said: again your story is caused off of a 2011 document . you do understand why they build test and modify this stuff over extended time don't you? you also understand we most likely already are working on perfecting a model you nor any one else has no fucking clue about don't you? you only see what they want you to see unless we go to war and even then it takes time to out our new tec to the world That is current data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 3 hours ago, spin_dry said: That is current data. your link says it is information obtained from documents they obtained from a 2011 military report . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ez ryder said: your link says it is information obtained from documents they obtained from a 2011 military report . 5/2/19 https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/05/02/one-of-the-f-35s-cost-goals-may-be-unattainable/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Only 400 have been built and many are currently grounded. https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/inventory-management-failures-are-grounding-f-35-jets/?utm_source=clavis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 9 hours ago, spin_dry said: The bugs may or may not be worked out with the f35. That remains to be seen. The core issue, and you know this, is operational costs. The target of $25k per hour is never going to be reached. Current operational costs of the f35 is $35k per hour. The F16 by contrast is $8k per hour. The older workhouse A10 is down to $6k. I know that comparing the A10 to the F35 isn’t apples to apples, but these jets aren’t only outrageously expensive to purchase, but the maintenance costs are blindingly cost prohibitive. Now let’s talk about the supply chain problems. Can’t educate people, reduce carbon emissions or provide healthcare. But we can blow em up real Guuud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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