racer254 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Big minimum wage hikes wipe out a lot of jobs. Illinois recently enacted a $15 minimum wage, a large increase in the minimum wage that will be phased in over several years. And businesses are already announcing plans to close up, move out of the state, or curb their expansion in the state. The Daily Gazette and Sauk Valley Media provide the example of Hopper’s Poppers: After a little more than 2 years downtown, Hopper’s Poppers – the business, and the building it’s in – are being put up for sale, the owner said. Ryan Hopper also closed his Sycamore shop this week, citing Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s approval of a statewide $15 minimum wage increase. Three months ago, he and his wife Stephanie were considering adding a third location in Roscoe, which would have brought him closer to his five-location goal. But he said the the minimum wage hike and Illinois’s notoriously high property taxes solidified the decision for his family to continue their business ventures outside Illinois. Jobs are being lost in New York, too. New York City experienced its worst decline in restaurant jobs since 9/11 after a $15 minimum wage there was enacted. The city saw its sharpest fall in restaurant employment in nearly 20 years. Its 40% increase in the minimum wage was phased in over a two-year period, but substantial job losses are already evident. As Jon Miltimore of the Foundation for Economic Education notes: Restaurants tend to operate on famously low profit margins, typically 2 to 6 percent. So a 40 percent mandatory wage increase over a two-year period is not trivial. In response to the minimum wage hikes, New York City restaurants did what businesses tend to do when labor costs rise: they increased prices and reduced labor staff and hours. For example, Lalito’s, a popular restaurant on Bayard Street, recently raised its menu prices 10-15 percent, Eater New York reports. A New York City Hospitality Alliance survey also showed that three out of four full-service restaurants said they planned to reduce employee hours. Nearly half of those surveyed said they planned to eliminate some job positions in 2019. As Miltimore notes, several other states have passed or are in the process of enacting a $15 pay floor. New Jersey recently enacted a $15 minimum wage—the increase will be phased in over several years —joining California, Massachusetts, Illinois, and New York. The Maryland House of Delegates passed a $15 pay floor on February 27. The District of Columbia and some cities, such as Minneapolis and Seattle and Minneapolis, also have $15 minimum wage laws. The abstract idea of a “living wage” is so powerful that politicians and even voters are willing to sacrifice real people in the pursuit of it. Politicians have admitted that these radical increases in the minimum wage make no economic sense, even if they make for a moralistic political soundbite. In signing California’s $15 minimum wage into law, California’s Jerry Brown said that, “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially, and politically they make every sense.” Voters often feel the same way. The Los Angeles Times reported that “Californians strongly back the state’s minimum wage increase to $15,” even “though they believe the wage hike will hurt their pocketbooks and the state’s economy,” and “high percentages of those surveyed expected negative consequences, including layoffs and business relocations to states with lower minimum wages. Almost 90% of respondents believed that prices for consumers would rise because of the wage hike.” By advocating minimum wage hikes, people get to signal their own political virtue — at the expense of other people’s jobs. 72% of economists say that a $15 minimum wage is a bad idea, and an even higher percentage say it will increase the unemployment rate. An economist at Moody’s estimated that up to 160,000 jobs will be lost in California’s manufacturing sector alone from the increase to $15. Raising its own minimum wage costs a state critical tax revenue, and constitutes unilateral disarmament in its competition with other states. Job losses and business failures due to minimum wage hikes reduce state revenue. Meanwhile, much of the benefit of the wage hike to low income workers who manage to keep jobs at the increased minimum wage is lost due to increased federal taxes and reduced federal earned-income tax credits and food stamps, as a writer noted in the Wall Street Journal in 2016: “the tax implications of going from a $10- to a $15-an-hour minimum wage” are fiscally “very significant. For a family of four with both spouses making the minimum wage, their federal tax will increase from $4,106 to $7,219, payroll tax will increase from $2,579 to $3,869, their earned-income tax credit (EITC) will be reduced from $596 to zero … and the $2,400 food-stamp credit will be lost. Of the $20,800 increase in income in going from $10 to $15 an hour, $7,778 will be diverted to the government, which doesn’t include loss of other income-dependent government welfare programs and added costs due to the resulting inflation. Over one third of the wage increase will flow to the [federal] government.” The net result is that an economically-struggling town with lots of low-wage workers tends to have less disposable income, higher prices, and less consumer purchasing power (meaning fewer retail jobs) after a minimum wage hike than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted March 8, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 8, 2019 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/6/whole-foods-workers-hours-cut-15-minimum-wage-amaz/ Whole Foods employees: Hours have been cut after $15/hour wage imposed by Amazon In many cases workers say result is a net loss in wages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 “Economically, minimum wages may not make sense. But morally, socially, and politically they make every sense.” Wow. At least they can feel good about what they did while they watch all those buisnesses cut folks or flee the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 lemme guess, minimum wage hikes are to blame for the low feb job numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, Highmark said: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/6/whole-foods-workers-hours-cut-15-minimum-wage-amaz/ Whole Foods employees: Hours have been cut after $15/hour wage imposed by Amazon In many cases workers say result is a net loss in wages so demand didn't change or anything, huh? every time someone, somewhere, gets a cutback it's because of minimum wage increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 i also thought racer was for the working man, the middle class..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: i also thought racer was for the working man, the middle class..... I am. Maybe you should start being that way as well. You didn't read or understand the article if you are asking this. Edited March 8, 2019 by racer254 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 A living wage is a must. Whether that is $15 in NYC, $12.50 in Detroit, and $8.35 in BumFuckSisterFucker South Dakota. We don’t need a nationwide set wage. We need a wage that fluctuates to each and every area’s cost of living. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 If you can't pay a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. The end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If you can't pay a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. The end. Truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoughnut Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: A living wage is a must. Whether that is $15 in NYC, $12.50 in Detroit, and $8.35 in BumFuckSisterFucker South Dakota. We don’t need a nationwide set wage. We need a wage that fluctuates to each and every area’s cost of living. Stop picking on SSFB 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: If you can't pay a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. The end. They just go over seas or Mexico and really exploit the slaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If you can't pay a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. The end. 1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said: Truth. Sure, better to let someone else do the heavy lifting though, right? Watch from the sidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ArcticCrusher said: Sure, better to let someone else do the heavy lifting though, right? Watch from the sidelines. I know you’re for the poor man. If it benefits you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Maybe its time the sheep see that a min wage job isnt meant to be a career..........crazy talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said: I know you’re for the poor man. If it benefits you. I know what it takes to start a business from scratch and I know the risks it takes. Most small business owners do not make as much as those working for government. And you guys are scared shit of the stock market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XC.Morrison Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 It’s just companies throwing tantrums. Eventually the higher wages will put more money in folks’ pockets that will increase their buying power thus driving up demand. Additionally, we can cut federal assistance spending so it’s basically a win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If you can't pay a living wage, you don't deserve to be in business. The end. Depends on who you are employing. If you're employee is 16 and in high school, should they make a living wage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted March 8, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted March 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, s pump said: Depends on who you are employing. If you're employee is 16 and in high school, should they make a living wage? Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 The real minimum wage is always zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, SnowRider said: Why not? Do you know what devalued currency does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ArcticCrusher said: I know what it takes to start a business from scratch and I know the risks it takes. Most small business owners do not make as much as those working for government. And you guys are scared shit of the stock market. I had a 10 year business. It paid far better than the government. I still consult and perform contract work at three private firms. I’ve worked in a number of positions throughout my life. Some trades and some progressional. I’ve been gifted with a diverse life. I’ve worked for decent business owners and bad business owners. The bad ones were the guys that complained about all their risk and how the workers should be grateful. I’ve had two jobs like that. I walked out on both in less than a week. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t have the confidence or ability to do that. They stay in a shit hole of a job with a shitty and negative boss. Sucks to be them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, s pump said: Depends on who you are employing. If you're employee is 16 and in high school, should they make a living wage? Don't hire kids then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, s pump said: Depends on who you are employing. If you're employee is 16 and in high school, should they make a living wage? The value of work is the value of work. Whether that is someone 16 or 36. Paying the labor less by age would mean valuing it as less. But if the job requirements are the same for 16 as 36, the pay must be commensurate with that. If you argue they should be paid less, that would be taking advantage of them via age. That is technically against the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: I had a 10 year business. It paid far better than the government. I still consult and perform contract work at three private firms. I’ve worked in a number of positions throughout my life. Some trades and some progressional. I’ve been gifted with a diverse life. I’ve worked for decent business owners and bad business owners. The bad ones were the guys that complained about all their risk and how the workers should be grateful. I’ve had two jobs like that. I walked out on both in less than a week. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t have the confidence or ability to do that. They stay in a shit hole of a job with a shitty and negative boss. Sucks to be them. Really? Cute story bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 minute ago, ArcticCrusher said: Really? Cute story bro. Assholes are assholes. They don’t change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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