ActionfigureJoe Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) This makes me giggle https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/09/20/judge-andrew-napolitano-why-paul-manafort-is-trumps-beast-in-night.amp.html Edited September 21, 2018 by ActionfigureJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 If you have been following the serious destruction brought about by Hurricane Florence in North Carolina and the political turmoil caused by the allegations of teenage sexual misconduct made by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford against Judge Brett Kavanaugh, along with his firm and unbending denials, you might have missed a profound event in a federal courtroom in the nation's capital late last week. The Florence damage may take years to repair, and the Kavanaugh nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court, which once seemed assured, at this writing is in a sort of limbo, pending an Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas-like confrontation before the Senate Judiciary Committee next week. But when Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump's one-time campaign chair, entered a guilty plea in federal court last week, it created the potential for a political earthquake. Here is the backstory. Manafort was indicted by two federal grand juries -- one in Arlington, Virginia, and the other in Washington, D.C. -- for financial crimes committed before and during his time running the 2016 Trump presidential campaign. Both prosecutions have been led by Robert Mueller, the Department of Justice-appointed special counsel charged with investigating whether there was a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and people working for the Russian government. Often, when prosecutors are looking for evidence of crime A, they find evidence of crime B. This is what happened to Manafort. Yet, as the trial judge said in Manafort's Virginia trial last month, which ended in convictions on 8 of 18 charges, the feds were indeed looking for evidence of crime B as well. We all know that the principal reason for pursuing Manafort on financial crimes has been to squeeze him for what he knows about Trump. Last week, on the eve of Manafort’s second trial, that prosecutorial strategy paid off when he entered a guilty plea before a federal judge in Washington, D.C. Manafort’s guilty plea is unique and extraordinary. In the plea, Manafort, who only pleaded guilty to two federal crimes -- witness tampering and conspiracy to defraud the government -- also admitted that he committed dozens of other federal and state crimes. This was intentionally maneuvered by Mueller as part of the plea agreement so as to make it bulletproof from a presidential pardon. I have never seen this before. The president can only pardon federal crimes. Should he do so for Manafort, state prosecutors in New York, Virginia and California -- the states where these crimes (mainly bank fraud) to which Manafort admitted under oath actually took place -- can seek indictments immediately. It will be easy to indict and easy to convict Manafort because of his public admissions last Friday. The pattern of crimes to which Manafort admitted but for which he did not plead guilty is breathtaking. It involves tens of millions of dollars, the highest-ranking former government officials in the Ukraine, an unnamed Obama Cabinet member and a few Russian oligarchs. The only good news for Trump in all this is that he and his Republican congressional colleagues will be spared the daily barrage of negative headlines from a second Manafort trial, which was scheduled to start this week and which would have led up to the midterm elections, had it not been aborted by the guilty plea. But the president surely fears a beast in the night in the form of whatever Manafort privately tells Mueller. The plea agreement -- all 117 pages of it -- does not spell out what evidence Manafort gave Mueller to persuade him to agree to cap Manafort's prison time exposure at 10 years when he could have gotten 60. But it does spell out Manafort's willingness and now legal obligation to assist Mueller. We know that Manafort's personal offer of assistance to Mueller took place over the course of two days of negotiations on Monday and Tuesday of last week. That type of meeting, during which Manafort tipped his hand as to what evidence he could give Mueller about Trump, has been called a "Queen for a Day" by federal prosecutors and FBI agents because the defendant gets to say whatever he wants and if the negotiations fail to produce a deal the feds cannot use what the defendant has told them. The meeting obviously intrigued and excited Mueller's team, and hence a deal was struck. What did he tell them? Manafort was present at the July 2016 Trump Tower meeting between campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents, and he made notes. He was present at the preparatory meeting for that Trump Tower meeting. He can probably explain the circuitous and mysterious route of Russian money transfers that followed the Trump Tower meeting. He can explain the 80 times the campaign was in contact with the Russians while he was the campaign chair, and he probably knows if Trump personally knew of the Trump Tower meeting in advance and of any agreements made there. Stated differently, Manafort can help Mueller paint the Trump Tower meeting and whatever followed it as an agreement by the campaign to accept something of value from a foreign entity, even if the thing of value never arrived: That would be a criminal conspiracy, which my media colleagues call "collusion," a non-legal term. Manafort can also inform Mueller of his financial deals with Trump that preceded Trump's candidacy, at least one of which involved Russian money. The president's lawyers have shrugged off the Manafort guilty plea as unrelated to the president. This is false bravado for public consumption only, and I don't blame them for it when their client is the president. But if their client has been candid with them, then they can prepare for the Manafort bombshells that are coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1R9sledder Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mainecat said: If you have been following the serious destruction brought about by Hurricane Florence in North Carolina and the political turmoil caused by the allegations of teenage sexual misconduct made by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford against Judge Brett Kavanaugh, along with his firm and unbending denials, you might have missed a profound event in a federal courtroom in the nation's capital late last week. The Florence damage may take years to repair, and the Kavanaugh nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court, which once seemed assured, at this writing is in a sort of limbo, pending an Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas-like confrontation before the Senate Judiciary Committee next week. But when Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump's one-time campaign chair, entered a guilty plea in federal court last week, it created the potential for a political earthquake. Here is the backstory. Manafort was indicted by two federal grand juries -- one in Arlington, Virginia, and the other in Washington, D.C. -- for financial crimes committed before and during his time running the 2016 Trump presidential campaign. Both prosecutions have been led by Robert Mueller, the Department of Justice-appointed special counsel charged with investigating whether there was a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and people working for the Russian government. Often, when prosecutors are looking for evidence of crime A, they find evidence of crime B. This is what happened to Manafort. Yet, as the trial judge said in Manafort's Virginia trial last month, which ended in convictions on 8 of 18 charges, the feds were indeed looking for evidence of crime B as well. We all know that the principal reason for pursuing Manafort on financial crimes has been to squeeze him for what he knows about Trump. Last week, on the eve of Manafort’s second trial, that prosecutorial strategy paid off when he entered a guilty plea before a federal judge in Washington, D.C. Manafort’s guilty plea is unique and extraordinary. In the plea, Manafort, who only pleaded guilty to two federal crimes -- witness tampering and conspiracy to defraud the government -- also admitted that he committed dozens of other federal and state crimes. This was intentionally maneuvered by Mueller as part of the plea agreement so as to make it bulletproof from a presidential pardon. I have never seen this before. The president can only pardon federal crimes. Should he do so for Manafort, state prosecutors in New York, Virginia and California -- the states where these crimes (mainly bank fraud) to which Manafort admitted under oath actually took place -- can seek indictments immediately. It will be easy to indict and easy to convict Manafort because of his public admissions last Friday. The pattern of crimes to which Manafort admitted but for which he did not plead guilty is breathtaking. It involves tens of millions of dollars, the highest-ranking former government officials in the Ukraine, an unnamed Obama Cabinet member and a few Russian oligarchs. The only good news for Trump in all this is that he and his Republican congressional colleagues will be spared the daily barrage of negative headlines from a second Manafort trial, which was scheduled to start this week and which would have led up to the midterm elections, had it not been aborted by the guilty plea. But the president surely fears a beast in the night in the form of whatever Manafort privately tells Mueller. The plea agreement -- all 117 pages of it -- does not spell out what evidence Manafort gave Mueller to persuade him to agree to cap Manafort's prison time exposure at 10 years when he could have gotten 60. But it does spell out Manafort's willingness and now legal obligation to assist Mueller. We know that Manafort's personal offer of assistance to Mueller took place over the course of two days of negotiations on Monday and Tuesday of last week. That type of meeting, during which Manafort tipped his hand as to what evidence he could give Mueller about Trump, has been called a "Queen for a Day" by federal prosecutors and FBI agents because the defendant gets to say whatever he wants and if the negotiations fail to produce a deal the feds cannot use what the defendant has told them. The meeting obviously intrigued and excited Mueller's team, and hence a deal was struck. What did he tell them? Manafort was present at the July 2016 Trump Tower meeting between campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents, and he made notes. He was present at the preparatory meeting for that Trump Tower meeting. He can probably explain the circuitous and mysterious route of Russian money transfers that followed the Trump Tower meeting. He can explain the 80 times the campaign was in contact with the Russians while he was the campaign chair, and he probably knows if Trump personally knew of the Trump Tower meeting in advance and of any agreements made there. Stated differently, Manafort can help Mueller paint the Trump Tower meeting and whatever followed it as an agreement by the campaign to accept something of value from a foreign entity, even if the thing of value never arrived: That would be a criminal conspiracy, which my media colleagues call "collusion," a non-legal term. Manafort can also inform Mueller of his financial deals with Trump that preceded Trump's candidacy, at least one of which involved Russian money. The president's lawyers have shrugged off the Manafort guilty plea as unrelated to the president. This is false bravado for public consumption only, and I don't blame them for it when their client is the president. But if their client has been candid with them, then they can prepare for the Manafort bombshells that are coming. Get ready for the 46th President Pence!!! I like the sound of that, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 minute ago, T1R9sledder said: Get ready for the 46th President Pence!!! I like the sound of that, don't you? Pence is going down too Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Prepare for the Manafort bombshells!!!!!!!12222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Pence is going down too Bob. What are the charges for Pence? I can’t wait to hear this. 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1R9sledder Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 39 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Pence is going down too Bob. And the charges are?????? 18 minutes ago, Edmo said: What are the charges for Pence? I can’t wait to hear this. 🤪 x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Being too white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 21, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Mainecat said: If you have been following the serious destruction brought about by Hurricane Florence in North Carolina and the political turmoil caused by the allegations of teenage sexual misconduct made by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford against Judge Brett Kavanaugh, along with his firm and unbending denials, you might have missed a profound event in a federal courtroom in the nation's capital late last week. The Florence damage may take years to repair, and the Kavanaugh nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court, which once seemed assured, at this writing is in a sort of limbo, pending an Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas-like confrontation before the Senate Judiciary Committee next week. But when Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump's one-time campaign chair, entered a guilty plea in federal court last week, it created the potential for a political earthquake. Here is the backstory. Manafort was indicted by two federal grand juries -- one in Arlington, Virginia, and the other in Washington, D.C. -- for financial crimes committed before and during his time running the 2016 Trump presidential campaign. Both prosecutions have been led by Robert Mueller, the Department of Justice-appointed special counsel charged with investigating whether there was a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and people working for the Russian government. Often, when prosecutors are looking for evidence of crime A, they find evidence of crime B. This is what happened to Manafort. Yet, as the trial judge said in Manafort's Virginia trial last month, which ended in convictions on 8 of 18 charges, the feds were indeed looking for evidence of crime B as well. We all know that the principal reason for pursuing Manafort on financial crimes has been to squeeze him for what he knows about Trump. Last week, on the eve of Manafort’s second trial, that prosecutorial strategy paid off when he entered a guilty plea before a federal judge in Washington, D.C. Manafort’s guilty plea is unique and extraordinary. In the plea, Manafort, who only pleaded guilty to two federal crimes -- witness tampering and conspiracy to defraud the government -- also admitted that he committed dozens of other federal and state crimes. This was intentionally maneuvered by Mueller as part of the plea agreement so as to make it bulletproof from a presidential pardon. I have never seen this before. The president can only pardon federal crimes. Should he do so for Manafort, state prosecutors in New York, Virginia and California -- the states where these crimes (mainly bank fraud) to which Manafort admitted under oath actually took place -- can seek indictments immediately. It will be easy to indict and easy to convict Manafort because of his public admissions last Friday. The pattern of crimes to which Manafort admitted but for which he did not plead guilty is breathtaking. It involves tens of millions of dollars, the highest-ranking former government officials in the Ukraine, an unnamed Obama Cabinet member and a few Russian oligarchs. The only good news for Trump in all this is that he and his Republican congressional colleagues will be spared the daily barrage of negative headlines from a second Manafort trial, which was scheduled to start this week and which would have led up to the midterm elections, had it not been aborted by the guilty plea. But the president surely fears a beast in the night in the form of whatever Manafort privately tells Mueller. The plea agreement -- all 117 pages of it -- does not spell out what evidence Manafort gave Mueller to persuade him to agree to cap Manafort's prison time exposure at 10 years when he could have gotten 60. But it does spell out Manafort's willingness and now legal obligation to assist Mueller. We know that Manafort's personal offer of assistance to Mueller took place over the course of two days of negotiations on Monday and Tuesday of last week. That type of meeting, during which Manafort tipped his hand as to what evidence he could give Mueller about Trump, has been called a "Queen for a Day" by federal prosecutors and FBI agents because the defendant gets to say whatever he wants and if the negotiations fail to produce a deal the feds cannot use what the defendant has told them. The meeting obviously intrigued and excited Mueller's team, and hence a deal was struck. What did he tell them? Manafort was present at the July 2016 Trump Tower meeting between campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents, and he made notes. He was present at the preparatory meeting for that Trump Tower meeting. He can probably explain the circuitous and mysterious route of Russian money transfers that followed the Trump Tower meeting. He can explain the 80 times the campaign was in contact with the Russians while he was the campaign chair, and he probably knows if Trump personally knew of the Trump Tower meeting in advance and of any agreements made there. Stated differently, Manafort can help Mueller paint the Trump Tower meeting and whatever followed it as an agreement by the campaign to accept something of value from a foreign entity, even if the thing of value never arrived: That would be a criminal conspiracy, which my media colleagues call "collusion," a non-legal term. Manafort can also inform Mueller of his financial deals with Trump that preceded Trump's candidacy, at least one of which involved Russian money. The president's lawyers have shrugged off the Manafort guilty plea as unrelated to the president. This is false bravado for public consumption only, and I don't blame them for it when their client is the president. But if their client has been candid with them, then they can prepare for the Manafort bombshells that are coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, T1R9sledder said: Get ready for the 46th President Pence!!! I like the sound of that, don't you? Maybe. Depends on what Manafort’s evidence might be. Mueller will now have his testimony and his notes. Manafort is the only person that was at the trump tower meeting who has every reason to be honest. He’s was also the conduit between Russia and the trump campaign. I never knew that Russian adoptions were such a complicated task and required so many people to coordinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: Maybe. Depends on what Manafort’s evidence might be. Mueller will now have his testimony and his notes. Manafort is the only person that was at the trump tower meeting who has every reason to be honest. He’s was also the conduit between Russia and the trump campaign. I never knew that Russian adoptions were such a complicated task and required so many people to coordinate. Tell us who stands the most to lose when the adoptions stopped? Do you know how much money is involved in foreign adoptions and who ends up with most of that money? It’s a very lucrative business for lawyers. What was that Russian lady’s occupation again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 Just now, Edmo said: Tell us who stands the most to lose when the adoptions stopped? Do you know how much money is involved in foreign adoptions and who ends up with most of that money? It’s a very lucrative business for lawyers. What was that Russian lady’s occupation again? Yeah ok. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: Maybe. Depends on what Manafort’s evidence might be. Mueller will now have his testimony and his notes. Manafort is the only person that was at the trump tower meeting who has every reason to be honest. He’s was also the conduit between Russia and the trump campaign. I never knew that Russian adoptions were such a complicated task and required so many people to coordinate. Pence would be an accessory if proven he knew about the Russian meetings and didn’t come forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 This was intentionally maneuvered by Mueller as part of the plea agreement so as to make it bulletproof from a presidential pardon. I have never seen this before. The president can only pardon federal crimes. Should he do so for Manafort, state prosecutors in New York, Virginia and California -- the states where these crimes (mainly bank fraud) to which Manafort admitted under oath actually took place -- can seek indictments immediately. It will be easy to indict and easy to convict Manafort because of his public admissions last Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Manafort was present at the July 2016 Trump Tower meeting between campaign officials and Russian intelligence agents, and he made notes. He was present at the preparatory meeting for that Trump Tower meeting. He can probably explain the circuitous and mysterious route of Russian money transfers that followed the Trump Tower meeting. He can explain the 80 times the campaign was in contact with the Russians while he was the campaign chair, and he probably knows if Trump personally knew of the Trump Tower meeting in advance and of any agreements made there. Stated differently, Manafort can help Mueller paint the Trump Tower meeting and whatever followed it as an agreement by the campaign to accept something of value from a foreign entity, even if the thing of value never arrived: That would be a criminal conspiracy, which my media colleagues call "collusion," a non-legal term. Manafort can also inform Mueller of his financial deals with Trump that preceded Trump's candidacy, at least one of which involved Russian money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1R9sledder Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Pence would be an accessory if proven he knew about the Russian meetings and didn’t come forward. Is that what your charges are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionfigureJoe Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Pence would be an accessory if proven he knew about the Russian meetings and didn’t come forward. Pence is a very clever politician. He’s keeping himself clean. There’s been a very clear distance between trump and pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 21, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said: Maybe. Depends on what Manafort’s evidence might be. Mueller will now have his testimony and his notes. Manafort is the only person that was at the trump tower meeting who has every reason to be honest. He’s was also the conduit between Russia and the trump campaign. I never knew that Russian adoptions were such a complicated task and required so many people to coordinate. Since this appears for some of you to be coming down to the Trump tower meeting. For discussion sake lets say that the "Russian's in the meeting gave the campaign dirt on Hillary. What was the dirt and what is the crime? Did the Hillary campaign not receive dossier information from the Russian's? How is this different as we know the Clinton campaign actually PAID for it. You do realize he wasn't POTUS at that time so generally speaking how would he be impeached? The GOP and even some red state dems will not vote for impeachment especially in the Senate where it will take 67 votes. Edited September 21, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecat Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Highmark said: Since this appears for some of you to be coming down to the Trump tower meeting. For discussion sake lets say that the "Russian's in the meeting gave the campaign dirt on Hillary. What was the dirt and what is the crime? Did the Hillary campaign not receive dossier information from the Russian's? How is this different as we know the Clinton campaign actually PAID for it. You do realize he wasn't POTUS at that time so generally speaking how would he be impeached? The GOP and even some red state dems will not vote for impeachment especially in the Senate where it will take 67 votes. Mannifort offered to work for the Trump campaign for free. Mueller knows why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted September 21, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Mannifort offered to work for the Trump campaign for free. Mueller knows why. You do know Manafort seeked Trump out in order to work for him? Older NYT's article but they state that as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/us/to-charm-trump-paul-manafort-sold-himself-as-an-affordable-outsider.html Edited September 21, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oleroule Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, Mainecat said: Mannifort offered to work for the Trump campaign for free. Mueller knows why. you know this, how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Mainecat said: Pence would be an accessory if proven he knew about the Russian meetings and didn’t come forward. been the whole theme for 2 years now.. GFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIQPilot Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Mainecat said: Pence would be an accessory if proven he knew about the Russian meetings and didn’t come forward. Was the "Russian meetings" a crime? is it possible to be an accessory if there is no crime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 11 hours ago, ActionfigureJoe said: This makes me giggle https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/09/20/judge-andrew-napolitano-why-paul-manafort-is-trumps-beast-in-night.amp.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I like Napolitano and this is probably the most incriminating piece I have seen yet. But it only eludes to possible conspiracy, there are zero details or scenarios that present a case for an actual conspiracy with Russia and the election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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