Interview with a Millenial

[02sled]

 

[bladefever]

[Puzzleboy]

Was listening to a radio show yesterday, talking about Millennials and real estate.  They can't afford houses, so are living at home until they're 30+.

I kinda laughed.  I saved and scrimped and fully renovated houses, flipped bikes, etc.  in my spare time just to get into the market.  Not a dime from my parents.  The sense of entitlement today confounds me.  Why can't they just get off their asses like we did?  Houses were expensive then, in relative terms, too.  I was tempted to call in and mention that not everyone should/will own real estate in Toronto.... market forces are just that.  Snowflakes, whiners, millennials..... yikes. 

[02sled]

9 hours ago, Puzzleboy said:

Was listening to a radio show yesterday, talking about Millennials and real estate.  They can't afford houses, so are living at home until they're 30+.

I kinda laughed.  I saved and scrimped and fully renovated houses, flipped bikes, etc.  in my spare time just to get into the market.  Not a dime from my parents.  The sense of entitlement today confounds me.  Why can't they just get off their asses like we did?  Houses were expensive then, in relative terms, too.  I was tempted to call in and mention that not everyone should/will own real estate in Toronto.... market forces are just that.  Snowflakes, whiners, millennials..... yikes. 

They whine about what they can't afford and at the same time will spend $800 every few months to have the latest greatest device to text their friends with. Nothing wrong with the old one, just not the latest and they have to have the latest.

 

[steve6]

I was talking to an Italian guy here who was talking about this subject (he's about 35), he was talking about basic wage project and people being priced out of the markets yadda yadda, and I said to him, didn't your father, uncles, and everyone in between work 6-7 days a week 12-14 hour days to pay for everything you have today today? Yet its ok to think people can do the same today on 7 hour work days, and god forbid they have to work weekends.

shut him up

[02sled]

There is also an expectation set by what their parents have. They see their parents with the nice large house, 5 appliances, finished basement, granite countertops, two car garage, landscaping and paved driveway. Must have two bathrooms, and central air. They expect to move into what they are moving out of when they leave mom & dads house. They forget that it took mom & dad a lifetime to get there, but they want it now.

I remember my parents telling me about moving into their first house. We lived with my dads parents for a few years while they saved for the house. A bungalow near the airport when all around was pretty much farm fields, late 1950's. No garage, gravel driveway, front and rear yards were dirt. Everyone rented rototillers and put down grass seed. The countertops were arborite, one bathroom and everyone on the street were hanging old bed sheets in the windows while they saved for draperies. Basement was concrete block.

Ask a first time millennial buyer if they will accept this today....

[revrnd]

@02sled sounds pretty much the same situation as my parents when they were 1st married.

[1trailmaker]

except the fact the builders you so much defend building on green space don't build small houses, they pave driveways, install fancy kitchens and bathrooms.  townhomes start at 1 million.

You guys live in the past, this is very clear.

 

Builders build for the highest profit - this isn't going to change because you guys want to go back to 1950

 

Video is funny though 

Edited May 2, 2018 by 1trailmaker

[ArcticCrusher]

8 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

except the fact the builders you so much defend building on green space don't build small houses, they pave driveways, install fancy kitchens and bathrooms.  townhomes start at 1 million.

You guys live in the past, this is very clear.

 

Builders build for the highest profit - this isn't going to change because you guys want to go back to 1950

 

Video is funny though 

Its pretty funny actually.  Both my dad and my FIL came here before they were 20, my FIL came when he was 15 with his older brother.  Not only did these guy have to start a life working here, they were expected to send whatever money they made back home to the leaches who refused to work, imagine that. 

So we don't want our kids to go through what some of our parents had to endure.  We want our kids to have a better life than ours and a better home, min 4 bedroom, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage minimum.

[1trailmaker]

7 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Its pretty funny actually.  Both my dad and my FIL came here before they were 20, my FIL came when he was 15 with his older brother.  Not only did these guy have to start a life working here, they were expected to send whatever money they made back home to the leaches who refused to work, imagine that. 

So we don't want our kids to go through what some of our parents had to endure.  We want our kids to have a better life than ours and a better home, min 4 bedroom, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage minimum.

Today we call them problem Immigrants - only bring in the well off workers 

Pretty common statement here on OFS 

 

Back in the day I watched so many Italian families do very well, couldn't grasp the language but knew how to save money.  My buddy Tony had to give all his money to the Head of the Family in return on his 16th birthday he got a brand new Iroc 28   guess what he got when he married   

[ArcticCrusher]

3 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

Today we call them problem Immigrants - only bring in the well off workers 

Pretty common statement here on OFS 

 

Back in the day I watched so many Italian families do very well, couldn't grasp the language but knew how to save money.  My buddy Tony had to give all his money to the Head of the Family in return on his 16th birthday he got a brand new Iroc 28   guess what he got when he married   

A nice down payment on a brand new house the wife picked out that her parents did the same?  

Problems began when the Itals started marrying mungies.  

Seriously though, my parents rented when they came here and then bought a tri-level semi and started renting, that meant a different family on every floor. 

The mortgage was paid off off quickly.  

[02sled]

38 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

except the fact the builders you so much defend building on green space don't build small houses, they pave driveways, install fancy kitchens and bathrooms.  townhomes start at 1 million.

You guys live in the past, this is very clear.

Builders build for the highest profit - this isn't going to change because you guys want to go back to 1950

Video is funny though 

They don't build it because nobody will settle for and buy the bare bones house.... The horrors of having a house without central air two baths and a dishwasher. You never will understand supply and demand will you????? If the people would buy that basic house the builder would build it. They aren't stupid. They aren't going to build a bunch of inventory they can't sell.

[02sled]

29 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Its pretty funny actually.  Both my dad and my FIL came here before they were 20, my FIL came when he was 15 with his older brother.  Not only did these guy have to start a life working here, they were expected to send whatever money they made back home to the leaches who refused to work, imagine that. 

So we don't want our kids to go through what some of our parents had to endure.  We want our kids to have a better life than ours and a better home, min 4 bedroom, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage minimum.

Sounds like my FIL... came here in his teens after the war. No money, no job to walk into and everything he had was in one suitcase. The only difference was his family had all been killed in concentration camps so nobody to send money back to. His first job was farm labour, sleeping in a bunk house with a bunch of other workers. Most of his days pay went to cover the bed for the night and the meals that their employer supplied.

Nothing wrong with wanting better for your kids, but nothing wrong with them knowing the value of a $ and working for what they have and want.

[1trailmaker]

5 minutes ago, 02sled said:

They don't build it because nobody will settle for and buy the bare bones house.... The horrors of having a house without central air two baths and a dishwasher. You never will understand supply and demand will you????? If the people would buy that basic house the builder would build it. They aren't stupid. They aren't going to build a bunch of inventory they can't sell.

if they built a box with 1 washroom and no kitchen all would sell in one day, what world do you live in  

There is better profit in high end building

 

if you go to sell your home and have an older style they will take 100k off the price, if you did the 10k in reno's yourself you get back that 100k 

 

You really need to get out more cliffy 

[ArcticCrusher]

23 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Sounds like my FIL... came here in his teens after the war. No money, no job to walk into and everything he had was in one suitcase. The only difference was his family had all been killed in concentration camps so nobody to send money back to. His first job was farm labour, sleeping in a bunk house with a bunch of other workers. Most of his days pay went to cover the bed for the night and the meals that their employer supplied.

Nothing wrong with wanting better for your kids, but nothing wrong with them knowing the value of a $ and working for what they have and want.

Bad times 02, lots of people were killed outside of camps fighting on the front lines, lets not forget that.

I think we are diverting though, how was your childhood like growing up?  Mine was pretty good, by the time I got married I had $300K down on a $400K home in the bridge and owned three rental homes with my brother and parents, my parents  paid for my education that I am very grateful for.  We sold those and invested into the business and that took off.  What would you do to help your kids if you had any?

[02sled]

25 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

if they built a box with 1 washroom and no kitchen all would sell in one day, what world do you live in  

There is better profit in high end building

if you go to sell your home and have an older style they will take 100k off the price, if you did the 10k in reno's yourself you get back that 100k 

You really need to get out more cliffy 

You're really out of touch with reality but that's nothing new. Your simply out to lunch on just about everything.

Talk to any realtor... nobody comes to them looking for a bare bones house. The builder can add whatever profit margin % they want. They can have an i.e. 50% markup on cost of a basic house or the same 50% on a luxury home. The ROI is the same.

As for selling an older style home... BS. Plenty of buyers enter into bidding wars on the older style homes and either tear them down or gut and add a floor etc. House on our street, 1950's bungalow in general disrepair had people lined up in the driveway the day the for sale sign went up, waiting for the agent to arrive. Sold for almost $200K above asking. This was last summer. We just got notice of the plan by the new owners to extend the rear wall, put on a second floor, rework the front porch making it much larger and add a garage.

Check with any contractor... the only real renos that come close to recovering what you put into them are the kitchen and bathroom.

You really need to stop smoking so much.

[ArcticCrusher]

37 minutes ago, 02sled said:

They don't build it because nobody will settle for and buy the bare bones house.... The horrors of having a house without central air two baths and a dishwasher. You never will understand supply and demand will you????? If the people would buy that basic house the builder would build it. They aren't stupid. They aren't going to build a bunch of inventory they can't sell.

Bingo.

[ArcticCrusher]

3 minutes ago, 02sled said:

You're really out of touch with reality but that's nothing new. Your simply out to lunch on just about everything.

Talk to any realtor... nobody comes to them looking for a bare bones house. The builder can add whatever profit margin % they want. They can have an i.e. 50% markup on cost of a basic house or the same 50% on a luxury home. The ROI is the same.

As for selling an older style home... BS. Plenty of buyers enter into bidding wars on the older style homes and either tear them down or gut and add a floor etc. House on our street, 1950's bungalow in general disrepair had people lined up in the driveway the day the for sale sign went up, waiting for the agent to arrive. Sold for almost $200K above asking. This was last summer. We just got notice of the plan by the new owners to extend the rear wall, put on a second floor, rework the front porch making it much larger and add a garage.

Check with any contractor... the only real renos that come close to recovering what you put into them are the kitchen and bathroom.

You really need to stop smoking so much.

02 what is your price /sqft coming in at on your cottage rebuild?

[1trailmaker]

you guys are clueless if you think a bare bones small brand new house wouldn't see in a minute 

 

Don't worry Doug is on it 

[02sled]

5 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Bad times 02, lots of people were killed outside of camps fighting on the front lines, lets not forget that.

I think we are diverting though, how was your childhood like growing up?  Mine was pretty good, by the time I got married I had $300K down on a $400K home in the bridge and owned three rental homes with my brother and parents, my parents  paid for my education that I am very grateful for.  We sold those and invested into the business and that took off.  What would you do to help your kids if you had any?

Indeed there were lots who died. My FIL was lucky... he wasn't interned in a camp. He was 14 and given a gun. He fought at Monte Casino among others.

My childhood was I thought pretty good but nothing near yours. I earned pretty much everything myself. At 15 I started working in a Dominion store at Islington & Rexdale. 16 bought a new Honda 450 with money I saved. 17 bought a new Mercury Comet with money I saved. Paid for my own tuition, insurance and gas for the car while I lived at home and worked part time.

Moved into an apartment with a friend of mine at 23 and an apartment of my own at 25. Down payment for a house came from buying, training and selling show horses with my ex.

[1trailmaker]

4 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

02 what is your price /sqft coming in at on your cottage rebuild?

a soaking I am betting  

[ArcticCrusher]

3 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Indeed there were lots who died. My FIL was lucky... he wasn't interned in a camp. He was 14 and given a gun. He fought at Monte Casino among others.

My childhood was I thought pretty good but nothing near yours. I earned pretty much everything myself. At 15 I started working in a Dominion store at Islington & Rexdale. 16 bought a new Honda 450 with money I saved. 17 bought a new Mercury Comet with money I saved. Paid for my own tuition, insurance and gas for the car while I lived at home and worked part time.

Moved into an apartment with a friend of mine at 23 and an apartment of my own at 25. Down payment for a house came from buying, training and selling show horses with my ex.

I started with a paper route when I wasn't even twelve for the fiberal star and did caddying for cheap fuck golfers.

I (wife) worked for everything we have and will gladly help our son anyway we can.

[02sled]

5 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

02 what is your price /sqft coming in at on your cottage rebuild?

We would be building from scratch rather on our vacant lot on the road rather than rebuild a cottage on an island which would limit access. My wife is being very difficult on the concept of moving out of Toronto.

I don't know what the cost / sqft worked out to be for friends of ours but they recently looked at both options. Either rebuild / renovate an existing cottage or tear it down and start from scratch. When they got right into it, it was more cost effective to start from scratch and get exactly what they wanted.

If I'm not mistaken you have a Viceroy cottage which has two floors with a bedroom across the back and one across the front of the upper floor with a staircase that goes up between the two of them. This was the same as the cottage my parents had in Wasaga. They found it was more cost effective to start from scratch rather than try and rework the cottage into a full time residence as well. I assume you are thinking about your cottage.

[02sled]

8 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

a soaking I am betting  

I know how to negotiate Fail... something people like you and your government cronies don't.

[1trailmaker]

1 minute ago, 02sled said:

I know how to negotiate Fail... something people like you and your government cronies don't.

I built my own addition something you can't do   80k addition for under 10k 

There is no negotiations with builders, they tell you a price then add more at the end - pretty common knowledge.

Or give an outrageous quote, you talk them down - they laugh and say okay