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Some Great News from the OFSC


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33 minutes ago, Pete Z said:

I've never been to FH. Is it also built on swampland like Baboon City is?

No not at all. It was the old big bay point marina property. Way more luxurious then lagoon city. 

 

 

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back on topic

I would like to see a 1 day pass at @$35, instead of having to buy a $70 pass

bring back free family day passes

I was driving in Quebec the last week end in feb. lots of trails run beside the highway from montreal up to Quebec city. sleds wiping by 100 kph, ATV trails run right beside the sled trails. I saw more groups of atv and SxS on the trails than sleds. the same was evident driving all through the province. that should be an option for the ofsc also. I feel that an atv is not the same rush as driving a sled... you are still getting out and having fun with friends or family

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30 minutes ago, Taillight said:

back on topic

I would like to see a 1 day pass at @$35, instead of having to buy a $70 pass

bring back free family day passes

I was driving in Quebec the last week end in feb. lots of trails run beside the highway from montreal up to Quebec city. sleds wiping by 100 kph, ATV trails run right beside the sled trails. I saw more groups of atv and SxS on the trails than sleds. the same was evident driving all through the province. that should be an option for the ofsc also. I feel that an atv is not the same rush as driving a sled... you are still getting out and having fun with friends or family

The free weekend has not been cancelled, just moved from the family day weekend which is what was voted on. There are multiple benefits. Typically the busiest weekend of the season will be less busy and a better riding experience for those who actually pay for their permits. Increased safety on the trails on an already high traffic weekend when you have far fewer "dangerous" or novice riders on the trails. Having it on a different weekend than family day will increase traffic to local businesses giving them a spike on two different weekends of the year rather than just the one.

ATV's have their own trails here and in some cases shared trails but the shared trails are few. The ATV's can ruin a groomed trail very quickly and have little or no place on a snowmobile trail unless that is in fact a shared trail. Especially on private property.

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5 minutes ago, 02sled said:

The free weekend has not been cancelled, just moved from the family day weekend which is what was voted on. There are multiple benefits. Typically the busiest weekend of the season will be less busy and a better riding experience for those who actually pay for their permits. Increased safety on the trails on an already high traffic weekend when you have far fewer "dangerous" or novice riders on the trails. Having it on a different weekend than family day will increase traffic to local businesses giving them a spike on two different weekends of the year rather than just the one.

ATV's have their own trails here and in some cases shared trails but the shared trails are few. The ATV's can ruin a groomed trail very quickly and have little or no place on a snowmobile trail unless that is in fact a shared trail. Especially on private property.

In Quebec the ATV trails run alongside the sled trails in the winter.  Something worth considering here to have all your options covered.

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54 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

In Quebec the ATV trails run alongside the sled trails in the winter.  Something worth considering here to have all your options covered.

Fine with me if they have their own parallel trails. Not sure about the private property land owners and how they feel about it.

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3 hours ago, 02sled said:

Fine with me if they have their own parallel trails. Not sure about the private property land owners and how they feel about it.

Are the twinned trails on public or private land?

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I’ve been to FH many times for work  . It’s no Lagoon city . It’s very impressive . The way they constructed the Harbour . Restaurants that will be there . Bandshell , you name it , it has it . 

Now as they build more with the next few phases , it will be more people on top of each other . That doesn’t necessarily mean that it will start to decline . It may not be our idea of rest and relaxation , but if your from downtown, that may be what you like ..... 

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8 hours ago, Taillight said:

back on topic

I would like to see a 1 day pass at @$35, instead of having to buy a $70 pass

bring back free family day passes

I was driving in Quebec the last week end in feb. lots of trails run beside the highway from montreal up to Quebec city. sleds wiping by 100 kph, ATV trails run right beside the sled trails. I saw more groups of atv and SxS on the trails than sleds. the same was evident driving all through the province. that should be an option for the ofsc also. I feel that an atv is not the same rush as driving a sled... you are still getting out and having fun with friends or family

Well, I'd like to see the abolishment of the free weekend. At the very least, make it so that a sled will qualify one year then have to wait 2 years to qualify again. The whole idea was to let people try the trails and buy a permit the following year. Not for people plan their trail riding around one free weekend.

It should cost a minimum of $100 to be on the trails. What the hell does $70 do for the system once the permit processing is done, much less $35.

I'd like to see the season pass be $250 on early buy and $350 for late purchase. But we need to be able to enforce it or we will just create more freeloaders.

The pass has been too cheap for too long.

2 hours ago, StevieWonder said:

I’ve been to FH many times for work  . It’s no Lagoon city . It’s very impressive . The way they constructed the Harbour . Restaurants that will be there . Bandshell , you name it , it has it . 

Now as they build more with the next few phases , it will be more people on top of each other . That doesn’t necessarily mean that it will start to decline . It may not be our idea of rest and relaxation , but if your from downtown, that may be what you like ..... 

Did you not read that we put this thread back on track?

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Well, I'd like to see the abolishment of the free weekend. At the very least, make it so that a sled will qualify one year then have to wait 2 years to qualify again. The whole idea was to let people try the trails and buy a permit the following year. Not for people plan their trail riding around one free weekend.

It should cost a minimum of $100 to be on the trails. What the hell does $70 do for the system once the permit processing is done, much less $35.

I'd like to see the season pass be $250 on early buy and $350 for late purchase. But we need to be able to enforce it or we will just create more freeloaders.

The pass has been too cheap for too long.

Did you not read that we put this thread back on track?

 

 

On track ? .... Hmmm , what is this you speak of .........

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8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Well, I'd like to see the abolishment of the free weekend. At the very least, make it so that a sled will qualify one year then have to wait 2 years to qualify again. The whole idea was to let people try the trails and buy a permit the following year. Not for people plan their trail riding around one free weekend.

It should cost a minimum of $100 to be on the trails. What the hell does $70 do for the system once the permit processing is done, much less $35.

I'd like to see the season pass be $250 on early buy and $350 for late purchase. But we need to be able to enforce it or we will just create more freeloaders.

The pass has been too cheap for too long.

Did you not read that we put this thread back on track?

 

 

I agree with the higher pass fee but there needs to be a family pass when buying above 2.

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With the shit winters we have been having for the last 5 years around here, the OFSC would be better off giving the trail passes away free, just to keep borderline sledders from packing it in for good. Between sledders aging to the point that they don,t want to maintain trails any longer, and the crap winters, and the crazy price of sleds, it is a dying sport.

Raising costs will not keep people in this crazy, expensive, sport. At some point, it actually may end up being the straw that broke the sledders back, and once they are gone, will never return. The decine of the sledding population has started, and it will get way worse in the next 5-10 years. I,ll actually be very surprised if it isn,t totally wiped out in 10 years. 

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32 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

I agree with the higher pass fee but there needs to be a family pass when buying above 2.

I'm good with that.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

With the shit winters we have been having for the last 5 years around here, the OFSC would be better off giving the trail passes away free, just to keep borderline sledders from packing it in for good. Between sledders aging to the point that they don,t want to maintain trails any longer, and the crap winters, and the crazy price of sleds, it is a dying sport.

Raising costs will not keep people in this crazy, expensive, sport. At some point, it actually may end up being the straw that broke the sledders back, and once they are gone, will never return. The decine of the sledding population has started, and it will get way worse in the next 5-10 years. I,ll actually be very surprised if it isn,t totally wiped out in 10 years. 

Shit winters will harm the sport, but we don't need a brand new sled to get out and enjoy it, plenty of older iron that will do just fine.

 

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24 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

With the shit winters we have been having for the last 5 years around here, the OFSC would be better off giving the trail passes away free, just to keep borderline sledders from packing it in for good. Between sledders aging to the point that they don,t want to maintain trails any longer, and the crap winters, and the crazy price of sleds, it is a dying sport.

Raising costs will not keep people in this crazy, expensive, sport. At some point, it actually may end up being the straw that broke the sledders back, and once they are gone, will never return. The decine of the sledding population has started, and it will get way worse in the next 5-10 years. I,ll actually be very surprised if it isn,t totally wiped out in 10 years. 

Some good points re borderline and aging sledders. However it would not be feasible to give passes for free, how could you maintain trails?

The old cliche that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding, still hold true!

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9 hours ago, StevieWonder said:

On track ? .... Hmmm , what is this you speak of .........

Really.  You would think that this was his first visit to FS.  

Anywho, FH sounds like quite the going concern. I figured that it must be pretty nice for the guy I know to be moving from what he has to go there.

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As long as the manufacturers and the OFSC ignore the changing demographics the sport will struggle and die.

What new sleds can be purchased for under $10,000?

How have family lives changed?  Look on this site there are a number of guys who are all looking at getting out of sport because the cost vs utilization are way out of line.

 

Its a rich mans sport and when you factor in low snow conditions it’s doomed.

 

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11 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Well, I'd like to see the abolishment of the free weekend. At the very least, make it so that a sled will qualify one year then have to wait 2 years to qualify again. The whole idea was to let people try the trails and buy a permit the following year. Not for people plan their trail riding around one free weekend.

It should cost a minimum of $100 to be on the trails. What the hell does $70 do for the system once the permit processing is done, much less $35.

I'd like to see the season pass be $250 on early buy and $350 for late purchase. But we need to be able to enforce it or we will just create more freeloaders.

The pass has been too cheap for too long.

Did you not read that we put this thread back on track?

if everything is done electronically, cost are kept down for passes. I have to trail pass 4 sled for 1 day as I don't have a cottage and I want to get out with my family. forget all the other costs which are considerable. for the 2 times a year I can get away with my family it really add to my daily bill 4x$70 for a day pass. $35 would make it more reasonable for a day trip. otherwise I will wait till simcoe freezes and just go and ride the lake and canals for a few hours(not as fun as trail riding) I like to use the free weekend to go away and get 2 days of riding in. my kids love it. now tell me you don't or have never used a loop hole in your favor...

you are on the opposite side of the coin as me, but if you push out some of the marginal riders, along with aging riders, loosing trails, all in costs and bad weather, short season... you will slowly kill this sport and everyone will switch to atv's. Quebec saw the light and made a decision to look ahead and  to strengthen their trail system where they could. 

I see the dilemma in business, you have a contractor who charges very high money and does less jobs, he is successful,(keeps costs down, less jobs)  but there is also the contractor who charges less and does more jobs, probably higher costs but is also successful. in good times,  good economy floats all  boats, in slower times some boats sink, yes you can drop your prices to adapt. but home repairs are a need, not a want. in sledding lowering the costs in bad times will not work because  you will have drove marginal riders out and demographics are not in ofsc favor

11 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Sksman said:

As long as the manufacturers and the OFSC ignore the changing demographics the sport will struggle and die.

What new sleds can be purchased for under $10,000?

How have family lives changed?  Look on this site there are a number of guys who are all looking at getting out of sport because the cost vs utilization are way out of line.

 

Its a rich mans sport and when you factor in low snow conditions it’s doomed.

 

Sport has always been for those better off, certainly no rich.  You can get a new sled for 10k but it wont be top of the line.  We can't control the weather, that is the only thing i see killing the sport.

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3 hours ago, Bigfish said:

Some good points re borderline and aging sledders. However it would not be feasible to give passes for free, how could you maintain trails?

The old cliche that the permit is the cheapest thing about sledding, still hold true!

It always amazes me the amount of money people will spend for their toys yet cheap out on some of the basics....When I think about having over $30K invested in sleds and trailer and gear, what it costs for insurance, what I spend on fuel or even lunch while riding, to even consider complaining about the cost of the permit at $190 per sled being a factor driving me out of the sport is ludicrous.

Consumer studies have shown it's perceived tangibility. You spend money on something you can touch and feel is easier to rationalize than something intangible like the right to ride a trail system. You can't touch or feel it.

I shake my head when I see the guy who has dropped $100K+ on a boat and then looks for the least expensive polish he can find to protect his investment.

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20 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Sport has always been for those better off, certainly no rich.  You can get a new sled for 10k but it wont be top of the line.  We can't control the weather, that is the only thing i see killing the sport.

I tend to like buying end of season inventory at bargain prices. I can't imagine those that pay full list or real close to that. If you don't include taxes our 2015 sleds at the end of 2015 were just under $10K and they are far from the basic sled. Heated seats included.

I do see some though that seem to be living pay cheque to pay cheque, just getting by and still managing to have a sled. An older used sled but still they are out there riding.

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1 hour ago, ArcticCrusher said:

Sport has always been for those better off, certainly no rich.  You can get a new sled for 10k but it wont be top of the line.  We can't control the weather, that is the only thing i see killing the sport.

When you start looking at your target market as better off your missing the biggest market.

The guys who can only afford older sleds and would ride at most a handful of days per year.

OFSC has to entice the casual lake / bush trails rider into buying a permit.

2 or 3 guys have already stated that in this last page of comments.  

 

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3 hours ago, Sksman said:

When you start looking at your target market as better off your missing the biggest market.

The guys who can only afford older sleds and would ride at most a handful of days per year.

OFSC has to entice the casual lake / bush trails rider into buying a permit.

2 or 3 guys have already stated that in this last page of comments.  

 

How can the OSFC entice the casual lake/bush rider more than they are doing?

They already have a free (freeloader) weekend to try the trails, but that has now turned into a plan around the weekend and get one more weekend in.  That is a sure formula for the demise of the trail system.  Sometimes you just need to cut your loses and move on.  The permit prices need to go up and pray we get snow.

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