Platinum Contributing Member steve from amherst Posted February 15, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, f7ben said: I wasn't disparaging licensed electricians at all....just making the point that the maintenance trade is 100% different than what 90% of Licensed electricians have any experience with. A lot of trades are like that. 1/2 the time we hire a licensed plumber we have to show them what kind of backflow protection they need where and how to properly install it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledderj Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, f7ben said: I wasn't disparaging licensed electricians at all....just making the point that the maintenance trade is 100% different than what 90% of Licensed electricians have any experience with. I'm confused? You are a journeyman, but not licensed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 hours ago, sledderj said: The current is the constant out of the equation. The voltage required varies greatly based on the environment the current has to travel through. Indeed, although depending on the path the current may need to be greater. Directly across the heart doesn't take a lot. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, sledderj said: I'm confused? You are a journeyman, but not licensed? I am not a journeyman....that would imply I am licensed. I have been working Industrial Electrical Maintenance for 8 years now and went to Electrical school after high school. I have no college degree and no license. I got hired as a "tech" and spent 1.5 years working under an experienced electrician before being promoted to full electrician myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledderj Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, f7ben said: I am not a journeyman....that would imply I am licensed. I have been working Industrial Electrical Maintenance for 8 years now and went to Electrical school after high school. I have no college degree and no license. I got hired as a "tech" and spent 1.5 years working under an experienced electrician before being promoted to full electrician myself. Wow, that's very different than what is done up here. As soon as a new employee makes it through a 3 month probationary period, we indenture them into the apprenticeship program. Over the next 4 years, as they accumulate the required hours, they periodically go to school and at the end, write their journeyman exams to qualify for their ticket. Our OSHA legislation would not allow us to use anything but journeymen or apprentices under the supervision of a journeyman to do much of our work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, sledderj said: Wow, that's very different than what is done up here. As soon as a new employee makes it through a 3 month probationary period, we indenture them into the apprenticeship program. Over the next 4 years, as they accumulate the required hours, they periodically go to school and at the end, write their journeyman exams to qualify for their ticket. Our OSHA legislation would not allow us to use anything but journeymen or apprentices under the supervision of a journeyman to do much of our work. Ya thats what i went through as well....but the factory I ended up at.after having my ticket for a few yrs..had what they called in house electricians....they were trained there and could not work any where else as they didnt have papers....they eventually grandfathered this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 OSHA requires me to be what is called a Qualified Electrical Person and it is largely up to the company to define that. I do have to be NFPA 70E certified and that is about the only certification requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledderj Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 36 minutes ago, DAVE said: Ya thats what i went through as well....but the factory I ended up at.after having my ticket for a few yrs..had what they called in house electricians....they were trained there and could not work any where else as they didnt have papers....they eventually grandfathered this. Very few of the plants out here apprentice anyone. They wait until contractors put them through school and get their JM's and then try to hire them. The only ones I knew of in Sask who were allowed to work on electrical without any schooling (other than a home owners) were Hutterites. Then, a few years ago, the government cracked down on them and they sent each colonies "electrician" to classes. They now can work on their own farm's equipment under a restricted licence. I think they still have to get a contractor in to sign off on anything 600V. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, sledderj said: Wow, that's very different than what is done up here. As soon as a new employee makes it through a 3 month probationary period, we indenture them into the apprenticeship program. Over the next 4 years, as they accumulate the required hours, they periodically go to school and at the end, write their journeyman exams to qualify for their ticket. Our OSHA legislation would not allow us to use anything but journeymen or apprentices under the supervision of a journeyman to do much of our work. That's not how it's done everywhere down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Basically what Ben does is what ever the laws allow him to do. But he and his manager know when they need to call in the big dogs. It's a cost saving measure the plant can't afford to have or justify having a bunch of guys hanging out making $350 an hour. Ben puts out the small fires and decides when to call the fire department and hopes he don't get electrocuted doing it Edited February 16, 2018 by Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Jet said: Basically what Ben does is what ever the laws allow him to do. But he and his manager know when they need to call in the big dogs. It's a cost saving measure the plant can't afford to have or justify having a bunch of guys hanging out making $350 an hour. Ben puts out the small fires and decides when to call the fire department and hopes he don't get electrocuted doing it Lolz...no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, f7ben said: Lolz...no Why dont you get your ticket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, DAVE said: Why dont you get your ticket? Because we don't employ any master electricians for me to log hours under and a journeyman license is worthless in the maintenance field either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 4 hours ago, f7ben said: Because we don't employ any master electricians for me to log hours under and a journeyman license is worthless in the maintenance field either way. Interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIQPilot Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 The oil and gas industry is very similar to where Ben works. Facility electricians are not necessarily journeyman electricians. Maybe 25% are but most are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 1:08 PM, f7ben said: I wasn't disparaging licensed electricians at all....just making the point that the maintenance trade is 100% different than what 90% of Licensed electricians have any experience with. Explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said: Explain Put a call in to the hall for a guy who can program , take care of instrumentation , has drive experience , and works with medium voltage switch gear and is familiar with 125MW furnace transformers and see what they tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 5 hours ago, AKIQPilot said: The oil and gas industry is very similar to where Ben works. Facility electricians are not necessarily journeyman electricians. Maybe 25% are but most are not. In house then....ben is not in house...hes worked more then one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, f7ben said: Put a call in to the hall for a guy who can program , take care of instrumentation , has drive experience , and works with medium voltage switch gear and is familiar with 125MW furnace transformers and see what they tell you. That sounds like what any industrial electrician should know and be able to do....perhaps a bit of specialization...in a certain area...but nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, DAVE said: That sounds like what any industrial electrician should know and be able to do....perhaps a bit of specialization...in a certain area...but nonetheless. In the US Journeyman electrician do almost no maintenance work out of a Union hall. It's mostly residential , commercial and the industrial work is conduit , raceway and pulling wire. Again...there are piles of great journeyman electricians but they are not taught to be maintenance electricians. Edited February 17, 2018 by f7ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledderj Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 14 hours ago, AKIQPilot said: The oil and gas industry is very similar to where Ben works. Facility electricians are not necessarily journeyman electricians. Maybe 25% are but most are not. That really surprises me. I would have thought with the heavy focus on safety in O&G that they would set a minimum standard for an electrical worker as a journeyman. Ben's right in that apprentices only take cursory schooling on technical equipment, but they are taught theory and are tested to make sure they are able to do basic calculations. Even things like hand signals and rigging are pretty useful to maintenance people. O&G here are JM as a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 10 hours ago, f7ben said: Put a call in to the hall for a guy who can program , take care of instrumentation , has drive experience , and works with medium voltage switch gear and is familiar with 125MW furnace transformers and see what they tell you. In Chicago we have a lot of inside wireman that have that have the experience and education to do all that, our apprenticeship program is a five year program that cover all aspects of the residential, commercial, and industrial disciplines. The apprentices who complete the 5 year course also earn 53 college credits towards an A.A.S. in electrical construction technology, Chicago area contractors have always invested heavily in training, our program is the model other programs across the country want to mimic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted February 17, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Mileage Psycho said: In Chicago we have a lot of inside wireman that have that have the experience and education to do all that, our apprenticeship program is a five year program that cover all aspects of the residential, commercial, and industrial disciplines. The apprentices who complete the 5 year course also earn 53 college credits towards an A.A.S. in electrical construction technology, Chicago area contractors have always invested heavily in training, our program is the model other programs across the country want to mimic. IBEW FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) On 2/15/2018 at 3:44 PM, f7ben said: I am not a journeyman....that would imply I am licensed. I have been working Industrial Electrical Maintenance for 8 years now and went to Electrical school after high school. I have no college degree and no license. I got hired as a "tech" and spent 1.5 years working under an experienced electrician before being promoted to full electrician myself. completely electrical or some electronics too? i went to a tech school called "RETS" right after high school. i think there are a few still around. that was primarily electronics stuff. from there i worked as a tech for several years and then decided to get my electrical engineering degree. Edited February 17, 2018 by Snoslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 8 hours ago, f7ben said: In the US Journeyman electrician do almost no maintenance work out of a Union hall. It's mostly residential , commercial and the industrial work is conduit , raceway and pulling wire. Again...there are piles of great journeyman electricians but they are not taught to be maintenance electricians. Dont know of any sane company that would allow a walk in from the hall to touch any automation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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