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Slow Joe

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Hello everyone new to this forum,Iam looking for some input I currently ride a 12 procross chassis 1100 non turbo its been a great sled very few issues and its getting long on the tooth(high miles) time to move on,I cant afford to buy off the showroom floor and see so many good deals on low mile units out there and considering a completely stock turbo version of the same engine  from some research it appears that the early ones were prone to issues,my question is what years did the "bugs" get straightened out where should I focus my hunt any assistance to point me in a direction appreciated.Joe 

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I think anything with team clutches would be good.  I think it's 16+.  They sorted some issues out 14+ but they were band aides at best.   The big fin update was a large failure.   If you can find a cheap Yamaha I'd go that route (doubt it tho) 

 

Yamaha fixed a lot of cats issues especially in clutching.  But i  have a 16 cat and it's been good for the low Miles it has. Try to find one with team clutches.  Resident cat experts can clarify the year they came out. :bc: 

Edited by Kev144
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Ok thanks now what are the differences I see a Team boss and a team rapid does this make a sixteen undesirable i have no intentions of altering the sled past stock other than studding I keep my sleds a average of six years and average 3 to 4 K a season.

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5 hours ago, Slow Joe said:

Ok thanks now what are the differences I see a Team boss and a team rapid does this make a sixteen undesirable i have no intentions of altering the sled past stock other than studding I keep my sleds a average of six years and average 3 to 4 K a season.

I would take either of them over cats designed clutch from 12-15.  They were notorious for blowing belts on the turbo due to heat.  They had a big fin update that just added cooling fins to the clutch, not actually fix the issue.  They scrapped it all and went to team for help. :bc:  of course imo the Yamaha turbo is the way to go but may be too new for you.  As if that were the case I'd go with the Yamaha.  You get the same chassis with Yamaha clutching and reliability 

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Thanks Kev there is quite a difference in used pricing,some really attractively priced low mile 16,s around whereas the seventeens are still holding some high values,I appreciate your input on the Yamaha models but they are over my budget for a turbo charged unit at this time armed with this clutching information the hunt starts pricing Iam sure will sharpen up as the season stretches out,I have had such good luck with the Cat 4 stroke that I prefer to stick with it thru the next sled,the sled after that if iam still kickin will likely be Yamaha or at least Yamaha powered I sure wish that the power steering that Yamaha has would have bleed thru into the Cat sleds would have been nice for my old arthritic shoulders LOL. Joe

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3 hours ago, Slow Joe said:

Thanks Kev there is quite a difference in used pricing,some really attractively priced low mile 16,s around whereas the seventeens are still holding some high values,I appreciate your input on the Yamaha models but they are over my budget for a turbo charged unit at this time armed with this clutching information the hunt starts pricing Iam sure will sharpen up as the season stretches out,I have had such good luck with the Cat 4 stroke that I prefer to stick with it thru the next sled,the sled after that if iam still kickin will likely be Yamaha or at least Yamaha powered I sure wish that the power steering that Yamaha has would have bleed thru into the Cat sleds would have been nice for my old arthritic shoulders LOL. Joe

No problem.  The Yamaha is basically a cat with a Yamaha motor and clutching (some other Yamaha parts) 

That said the old cat turbos were reliable too after the 12-13 issues.  

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5 hours ago, Puzzleboy said:

Try a Doo 1200.  Non turbo, but very light for a 4 stroke.  Will give your old shoulders a rest.  :)

As good as the 1200 is, it is not as much fun as the turbo Cat and the Doo also feels heavier because the steering effort is higher. The weight difference only matters if you are lifting the sled.

Cat had the clutches working well by the '15's but due to the reputation of eating belts, they jumped to the Teams. The Team clutches work ok, but they give up performance, slower and less top end. Add a clutch kit.

I seen a '16 Turbo LTD on Facebook beginning of the week with 800kms asking $8500. I wouldn't sell my '15 for that and those LTD's came with the QS3 shocks. Good deals out there.

Edited by Blackstar
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I'm sure a turbo Cat is fun, power wise.  Not a great reputation reliability wise.  My buddy has had his in twice now.  Once for stalling out, and for chaincase issues. 

I meant that the 1200s were light by 4-stroke standards.  My current sled weighs 515lbs dry.  My old ZX was around 475, and they weren't heavy.  I don't find the steering heavy, but a friend of mine did.  I find the steering effort quite reasonable. 

But the weight difference always matters, not just when you're lifting the sled. 

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It,s kinda a HP to weight thing. When you got twice the HP, and only a bit more weight, unless you are a 100 girl, steering effort is a non issue.

I,ve got a 2013 turbo, and it has been flawless. Of course, when you can only run the trails and railway beds @ 50 KPH, they all should be.

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Considering slow joe is coming from a 2012 F1100, he should be totally up to speed on the issues of the Cat, wasn't the 2012 the most problematic one of them all !?!?!?! :)

The Cat 4-stroke is also a solid motor with next to zero motor issues, issues were other parts of the sleds.....

I agree with Blackstar, 2015 and up, the clutch is an easy thing to work on, if you want to, lots of other clutch options that will be far less than the price tag of looking at a newer ride. 

And if you are going the 4-stroke route, I cannot see why you would not go with the turbo! 

Good Luck!

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20 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Considering slow joe is coming from a 2012 F1100, he should be totally up to speed on the issues of the Cat, wasn't the 2012 the most problematic one of them all !?!?!?! :)

The Cat 4-stroke is also a solid motor with next to zero motor issues, issues were other parts of the sleds.....

I agree with Blackstar, 2015 and up, the clutch is an easy thing to work on, if you want to, lots of other clutch options that will be far less than the price tag of looking at a newer ride. 

And if you are going the 4-stroke route, I cannot see why you would not go with the turbo! 

Good Luck!

My buddy has a 1100 non turbo as well I think the bigger issues were the 800 and turbos.  I agree clutching but there were a lot of issues to create all that heat that was blowing belts.  I'd take the team clutches even if they are slower.  More reliable long term.   So far my 16 has been good.  Slow on top end but good otherwise 

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2 minutes ago, Kev144 said:

My buddy has a 1100 non turbo as well I think the bigger issues were the 800 and turbos.  I agree clutching but there were a lot of issues to create all that heat that was blowing belts.  I'd take the team clutches even if they are slower.  More reliable long term.   So far my 16 has been good.  Slow on top end but good otherwise 

My 2013 800 has been good too, blew up one belt to date....my brother who had a 2012 800, no belt issues either.

Seems to be a hit or miss thing.....and I am sure the guys modding the turbo's have brought the issue more to the fore front! 

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Stoney my 12 is a non turbo considerably less HP than the turbo the clutching may not be what I would call spot on but has been basically a non issue belt life has been quite acceptable and no I have never scattered one,and yes i do want to go with turbo on the next one.Joe

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4 minutes ago, Stoney said:

My 2013 800 has been good too, blew up one belt to date....my brother who had a 2012 800, no belt issues either.

Seems to be a hit or miss thing.....and I am sure the guys modding the turbo's have brought the issue more to the fore front! 

It seemed to be more a turbo issue. Sad to see that zuk 800 go. Probably the most reliable 800 

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3 minutes ago, Slow Joe said:

Stoney my 12 is a non turbo considerably less HP than the turbo the clutching may not be what I would call spot on but has been basically a non issue belt life has been quite acceptable and no I have never scattered one,and yes i do want to go with turbo on the next one.Joe

I think most sleds could always use some clutch work, just depends on your riding style....clutching is normally takes the middle line.

The belt seems to be a bit blown out of porportion, IMO.

If I ever take the 4-stroke route, I would want the turbo, just to have that extra punch when you want it....and the deals on non current can be great, especially the way the winters have been the last few years!

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Just now, Srxfasterapex said:

why not look into the apex with the power steering?

It's a severely outdated chassis.  Going from the pro cross to it is like going to a sit down style sled.   

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2 minutes ago, Srxfasterapex said:

why not look into the apex with the power steering?

I have in fact tried one the steering effort was insignificant even with a lot of carbide,they are a very capable sled no doubt I found the ride overall quite harsh and the fella that owned it had it set for himself and we were fairly close on girth,I tend to stick with as iam sure most do a manufacture that has gave me decent reliability.Thanks Joe

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9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

As good as the 1200 is, it is not as much fun as the turbo Cat and the Doo also feels heavier because the steering effort is higher. The weight difference only matters if you are lifting the sled.

Cat had the clutches working well by the '15's but due to the reputation of eating belts, they jumped to the Teams. The Team clutches work ok, but they give up performance, slower and less top end. Add a clutch kit.

I seen a '16 Turbo LTD on Facebook beginning of the week with 800kms asking $8500. I wouldn't sell my '15 for that and those LTD's came with the QS3 shocks. Good deals out there.

Wow thats a deal for sure,my initial search started for a ZR 5000 basically a newer updated version of what i ride now seems people like them and hang on to them or they didnt sell many as they are few and far between on the Kijiji and priced at near retail,the turbo versions seemed a way better deal considering the sticker price at the local dealer for new and to have a extra thrust on them days where overflow on the lakes comes into play the weight difference is not that big so why not indulge myself and see what all this turbo hoop la is about considering I started sleddin on a 12/3 Ski doo i would like to finish off on a higher note.LOL Joe 

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The Team clutches are really nice. Smooth and sturdy and running very cool. Top end is not there on my 16 XF but being geared for a 1.6" lug 137 track, I am not surprised or unhappy with 95 mph as it gets there smoothly and quickly.

Can't blame just the clutches on the 800's as the Zuk 800ho was dynoing about 150 down from 163+ in it's first years. I firmly believe they have detuned the old Zuk in advance of the new Cat engine being released, as it also has proven to have not much more pony's or top end than the good old Suzuki it has replaced.

 

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51 minutes ago, lastzrt said:

 

The Team clutches are really nice. Smooth and sturdy and running very cool. Top end is not there on my 16 XF but being geared for a 1.6" lug 137 track, I am not surprised or unhappy with 95 mph as it gets there smoothly and quickly.

Can't blame just the clutches on the 800's as the Zuk 800ho was dynoing about 150 down from 163+ in it's first years. I firmly believe they have detuned the old Zuk in advance of the new Cat engine being released, as it also has proven to have not much more pony's or top end than the good old Suzuki it has replaced.

 

LOL., good idea with detuning the old motor just before the new is released!

Dyno does not lie, but was Cat not also messing with the gearing over the last few years causing top end to be inconsistent?

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