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Puzzleboy

Hydro One crash near Tweed

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On the news tonight, the TSB said they believe an externally fastened toolbag let loose, and took out the tail rotor.  That would have been an extremely awful & violent end for those poor guys.  Was likely the bag's contents that did the most damage. 

My Dad once told me that when he got checked out in the Sault for float flying, they wouldn't approve you for "external loads" until you had 100+ hours.  (On floatplanes, they strap canoes, etc. to the float struts- check out the movie Never Cry Wolf).  Serious business, when it goes wrong. 

Gonna be some hefty litigation, as usual. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tsb-update-dec-21-fatal-helicopter-crash-1.4460319

 

Improperly secured bag likely caused Tweed, Ont., helicopter crash: TSB

4 Hydro One workers were killed while performing routine maintenance work on a hydro line

By Trevor Pritchard, CBC News Posted: Dec 21, 2017 12:08 PM ET Last Updated: Dec 21, 2017 4:30 PM ET

A helicopter crash near Tweed, Ont., killed four Hydro One workers on December 14, 2017. The helicopter pilot and three crew members were performing routine maintenance work on a hydro line.

A helicopter crash near Tweed, Ont., killed four Hydro One workers on December 14, 2017. The helicopter pilot and three crew members were performing routine maintenance work on a hydro line. (Transportation Safety Board)

 
       
 
 
 
 
 

An improperly secured external bag came loose and struck the tail rotor of the helicopter that crashed last week near Tweed, Ont., killing all four people on board, the Transportation Safety Board says.

The board issued its latest findings Thursday afternoon into the Dec. 14 crash that killed the pilot and three workers, all part of a Hydro One work crew.

The men who died were 39-year-old James Baragar, the pilot, along with powerline technicians Jeff Howes and Darcy Jansen, both 26, and Kyle Shorrock, 27. They were all from either eastern or southern Ontario.

At the time of the crash, the crew was performing routine maintenance work on a hydro line and at a transmission tower on a rural property about 40 kilometres north of Belleville, Ont

TSB investigator-in-charge Peter Rowntree had previously said the helicopter was flying at a low altitude and preparing to land in a nearby field when it suddenly departed from its flight path.

On Thursday, Rowntree shared the TSB's preliminary findings, revealing that not only had the external bag — which was filled with tools and other supplies — come loose and struck the helicopter's tail rotor, but that two of the three passenger seatbelts were also unfastened.

"We recognize that this is an extremely difficult time for the families and friends of the victims, especially at this time of year," Rowntree said.

"However, when we uncover serious safety deficiencies during the course of our investigations, we do not wait until the final report is published to make them publicly known."

helicopter crash tweed bag tail rotor tsb ottawa dec 21 2017

The Transportation Safety Board says a white canvas bag, at left, came loose from the fuselage of the helicopter, and struck the aircraft's tail rotor, at right. Four Hydro One workers were killed in the crash. (Transportation Safety Board)

Bags normally locked down

Normally, Rowntree said, the bag would have been secured with a double-lock carabiner on a platform extending from the helicopter's fuselage.

However, after the Dec. 14 crash, Rowntree said investigators found a heavily damaged white canvas bag — with a damaged carabiner attached — along with the tip of a tail rotor blade roughly 600 metres from the crash site.

Damage to the tail rotor, he said, would have seriously affected the pilot's ability to counterbalance the power from the main rotor — and therefore steer the aircraft.

"When we lose a piece of that tail rotor, it causes a massive vibration in the helicopter. The pilot's going to feel that vibration in his feet," Rowntree said.

"He's going to know something's wrong."

Shortly after the bag struck the rotor, the three passengers became "separated" from the helicopter while it was airborne, he added.

 

The helicopter crashed shortly afterwards in a wooded field, he said.

Ont Helicopter Crash 20171214

OPP officers at the Hydro One helicopter crash site in Tweed, Ont., on Dec. 14, 2017. Four Hydro One employees were killed when the helicopter crashed on a rural property in the municipality of Tweed, Ont. (Lars Hagberg/Canadian Press)

Aviation industry warned

The TSB also issued an advisory Thursday to Transport Canada, the Helicopter Association of Canada, and other Canadian aviation agencies warning of the "risks associated with unsecured cargo and unrestrained passengers in helicopters."

The advisory urges helicopter operators to ensure cargo is safely secured and warns that passengers who don't wear seatbelts "risk serious injury or death" if an emergency occurs.

Rowntree said while it was too early to say how widespread issues around properly securing cargo were in the industry, the TSB felt the advisory was needed now.

"It doesn't affect just Hydro One. It effects every single helicopter operator in the country who's doing any kind of aerial work," he said.

"That's news choppers, police, air ambulance — anybody who could be carrying equipment. They need to be sure that it's properly secured at all times. And that's why we want to get this message out now."

Hydro One also has a policy that requires helicopter passengers wear their seatbelts at all times, Rowntree said.

Complex investigation ahead

The helicopter was a 1999 Aerospatiale AS 350 B-2,  registered to Hydro One Networks Inc.

It has has now been sent to the TSB 's engineering laboratory in Ottawa to examine its flight controls and engines in a controlled environment, Rowntree said.

We need to gather all the facts, go through them thoroughly ... that's going to take time. - Peter Rowntree, TSB investigator-in-charge

In the coming days and weeks, Rowntree said investigators will be interviewing witnesses and family members, poring over maintenance records and pilot training, and examining any previous incidents involving that particular helicopter model.

That investigation, he said, will be "complex."

"We need to gather all the facts, go through them thoroughly and come up with a report. That's going to take time," he said. "We'll take whatever time is required to do that thoroughly and make sure that the report is accurate."

CBC News has already learned that Baragar, the pilot, had an excellent record and proper training.

Hydro One chief operating officer Greg Kiraly previously said the company had never had a crash of this magnitude in its history, and that he was "heartbroken" by the deaths of the four men.

Edited by Puzzleboy

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Three passengers not wearing seatbelts.

Passengers became seperated from the helicopter before the crash.

Hydro One has a policy that all passengers must wear their seatbelts.

 

Lawsuit will be interesting.  Yes they died but they were ejected from aircraft because they were not wearing seatbelts which was in violation of Hydro One safety policy.  Were they properly trained?

Fault? 

Would they have died if they were strapped in helicopter?

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Does anyone personally know folks that work for Hydro One on transfer stations, dams, outside lines, etc......

I know for fact, they knowingly take risks that they are not supposed too......but of course many do on their jobs, difference with some jobs,  one mistake at your profession means death.

 

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4 minutes ago, Usedtoskidoo said:

this going to cost Hydro one big dollars

 

 

You mean, cost US big dollars......

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Not sure about that.... isn't that the purpose of WSIB in Ontario. You are compensated by them instead of the employer. I suspect that the only way Hydro One would be liable is if they were negligent in some way. If they have all the policies in place, the employees are educated on the policies it may be tough to establish negligence. They stated everyone was supposed to have a seat belt on but didn't. This one will likely be in a court for a long time.

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It is hydro one....money flows freely, when it is not theirs to give....the families will be well compensated.

WSIB is for injuries, not death....pretty sure if someone dies, that falls into another category.....but there WSIB premiums will likely go through the roof and a new policy will be implemented.

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Guys, lawsuits will be launched regardless.  Against Aerospatiale, Hydro one...... Even Klein Tools (name on the tool bag) will be named.  And countersuits.  Just the way it works.  There are at least 4 very unhappy families out there. 

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all employees have life insurance so they will get at very least that ( 2 years pay approx) 

Hydro One for sure would have had a safety seminar where you show  up and sign in - very common practice to remove any guilt in this case about not wearing seat belts.  Once you sign in or write the test ALL WILL PASS you have agreed you were trained.  

 

The tool bag is of interest, was it not fastened correctly? did it just tear off?  

You will see new rules on carrying equipment on the outside of helicopters from now on

 

Sad for these people, they work hard and do a fantastic job -  This is where you guys fail and call them lazy over paid fucks, this is really sad 

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1 hour ago, 1trailmaker said:

all employees have life insurance so they will get at very least that ( 2 years pay approx) 

Hydro One for sure would have had a safety seminar where you show  up and sign in - very common practice to remove any guilt in this case about not wearing seat belts.  Once you sign in or write the test ALL WILL PASS you have agreed you were trained.  

 

The tool bag is of interest, was it not fastened correctly? did it just tear off?  

You will see new rules on carrying equipment on the outside of helicopters from now on

 

Sad for these people, they work hard and do a fantastic job -  This is where you guys fail and call them lazy over paid fucks, this is really sad 

True. They might have had double or triple indemnity? It was up to them what they signed up for, plus, being as they were killed on the job,  other insurances kick in as well.

Unsure about the lawsuit side of things, but more than likely something will come from this. 

RIP guys. 

 

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4 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

all employees have life insurance so they will get at very least that ( 2 years pay approx) 

Hydro One for sure would have had a safety seminar where you show  up and sign in - very common practice to remove any guilt in this case about not wearing seat belts.  Once you sign in or write the test ALL WILL PASS you have agreed you were trained.  

 

The tool bag is of interest, was it not fastened correctly? did it just tear off?  

You will see new rules on carrying equipment on the outside of helicopters from now on

 

Sad for these people, they work hard and do a fantastic job -  This is where you guys fail and call them lazy over paid fucks, this is really sad 

Exclude me from that generalization. I've seen them working in the freezing rain after a wet snow event @ 6:30 AM & linemen, deserve ever penny they make.

Working around the voltages they do, pretty much makes what the rest of what we do pretty insignificant.

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13 minutes ago, revrnd said:

Exclude me from that generalization. I've seen them working in the freezing rain after a wet snow event @ 6:30 AM & linemen, deserve ever penny they make.

Working around the voltages they do, pretty much makes what the rest of what we do pretty insignificant.

very few here think this revrnd - 100k club list comes out and all the whining starts about Hydro guys 

Dude making 4 million at the top seems really  high but that is different 

 

bold - except for 02sled he is not replaceable, well according to him 

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

very few here think this revrnd - 100k club list comes out and all the whining starts about Hydro guys 

Dude making 4 million at the top seems really  high but that is different 

 

bold - except for 02sled he is not replaceable, well according to him 

 

 

 

 

I bet 100 Gs is easy for a lineman to make what w/ the OT they get during the aftermath of bad weather. 100 Gs for some pencil pusher that keeps track of empty wire spools is what most people can't stomach.

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2 hours ago, revrnd said:

I bet 100 Gs is easy for a lineman to make what w/ the OT they get during the aftermath of bad weather. 100 Gs for some pencil pusher that keeps track of empty wire spools is what most people can't stomach.

:lol:  spools

I don' t think everyone there makes 100k  I bet most are 45-55k working the desk 

many here think the linesperson is over paid 

 

Hydro One can do wonders keeping us up and running - 

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9 hours ago, revrnd said:

Exclude me from that generalization. I've seen them working in the freezing rain after a wet snow event @ 6:30 AM & linemen, deserve every penny they make.

Working around the voltages they do, pretty much makes what the rest of what we do pretty insignificant.

Couldn't agree more! I'm thankful there are guys like this out there as not many would sign up for this even if the pay was doubled what they currently make.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, irv said:

Couldn't agree more! I'm thankful there are guys like this out there as not many would sign up for this even if the pay was doubled what they currently make.

 

 

 

Nice video.  Notice strict safety protocol.  

Funny I haven’t seen them walking wires in around GTA.  why is that?   Why don’t we see the helicopters flying the lines in city for maintenance?  

How many Ontario hydro linemen walk on live wires in those suits Irv?  

 

They are paid well when they work.  How much downtime do they have in a Day?  How many days of training a year?  They have danger in their jobs but huge safety plans to eliminate the risk.  Or we would hear daily of hydro workers being dead.

When was the last time an Ontario Hydro worker was killed on the job while following all safety protocols?  

You want a dangerous job try being a tow truck driver on 401. Way more dangerous then the hydro guys yet you and fail would cry like if you have to pay $200 to get your car towed off the highway.  And a quarter of the pay of hydro.

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11 hours ago, revrnd said:

Exclude me from that generalization. I've seen them working in the freezing rain after a wet snow event @ 6:30 AM & linemen, deserve ever penny they make.

Working around the voltages they do, pretty much makes what the rest of what we do pretty insignificant.

Same here

  Have always ack the work they do in all weather and risks they take.  Sad day insurance can never replace the loss.

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11 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

very few here think this revrnd - 100k club list comes out and all the whining starts about Hydro guys 

Dude making 4 million at the top seems really  high but that is different 

 

bold - except for 02sled he is not replaceable, well according to him 

 

 

 

 

Have you been told to F off lately Fail. If not you're way overdue. Nobody is irreplaceable. Nobody. What I have always said and always will is that people should be compensated based on supply and demand for the job which is relative to the knowledge and skills they bring to the table. Once they get the job the variables of meritocracy come into play.

It's BS that the slacker doing just the minimum to stay employed gets paid the same as the person who has a strong work ethic and is far more productive than the slacker.

Prime example is you. You're the slacker that is protected underworked and overpaid. Nobody but nobody can claim they put in a hard day at work when they spend most of their day on the internet posting in the FS forums.

As for the linemen. They have a job I wouldn't want. Supply and demand would mandate they be paid well, knowledge, skill and working conditions. The only objection I would have to the situation of the linemen is the BS of the highly motivated and productive person on the job for two years being paid the same as the bare minimum effort person.

The highly productive person deserves more to reflect their merit.

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10 hours ago, revrnd said:

I bet 100 Gs is easy for a lineman to make what w/ the OT they get during the aftermath of bad weather. 100 Gs for some pencil pusher that keeps track of empty wire spools is what most people can't stomach.

Exactly...

A friend of mine was a lineman. He always maintained that he was well paid but the conditions sucked. Being up in a bucket in the middle of the night in a snow storm as an example.

Compensation should also be relative to the work conditions / environment / risk. I met a friend of his who was lucky to be alive. He could show you the line where the power ran into and back out of him.

Edited by 02sled

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2 hours ago, Sksman said:

 

Nice video.  Notice strict safety protocol.  

Funny I haven’t seen them walking wires in around GTA.  why is that?   Why don’t we see the helicopters flying the lines in city for maintenance?  

How many Ontario hydro linemen walk on live wires in those suits Irv?  

 

They are paid well when they work.  How much downtime do they have in a Day?  How many days of training a year?  They have danger in their jobs but huge safety plans to eliminate the risk.  Or we would hear daily of hydro workers being dead.

When was the last time an Ontario Hydro worker was killed on the job while following all safety protocols?  

You want a dangerous job try being a tow truck driver on 401. Way more dangerous then the hydro guys yet you and fail would cry like if you have to pay $200 to get your car towed off the highway.  And a quarter of the pay of hydro.

Please tell me you are not as obtuse as how you write/seem SKS? Did you watch the first vid? Does it look like they are in a suburban area with civilians, high rises and the like around? :whistle:

How much down time do surgeons, firemen, policemen, etc, have during the day? Do you think we should just pick these guys up off the street and immediately put them to work when something important comes up?  Of course these guys are well trained and have down time, but the down time is not just a bunch of them sitting around doing nothing waiting for the next crisis to come up. Like firemen/policemen, as an example, and most, besides you, are glad these people are around and ready to jump into action when the time comes up.

You remind me of a guy who made some bad career decisions growing up and rather than look at that and try to improve upon yourself, you use your anger/disappointment with those decisions and lash out at anyone who has it better/easier than you, namely OPG/Hydro employees. Did you have the opportunity to work for Hydro but turned it down or did you not pass the aptitude test in the first place? 

 

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15 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

very few here think this revrnd - 100k club list comes out and all the whining starts about Hydro guys 

Dude making 4 million at the top seems really  high but that is different 

 

bold - except for 02sled he is not replaceable, well according to him 

 

 

 

 

Have you been told to fuck off lately Fail. Everyone is replaceable, no exclusions. What I have always said and always will is that what someone is paid should be based on supply and demand for the skills and knowledge that person brings to the table.

The linemen are one group that actually earn their pay, working conditions, risk, skill and expertise.

I still maintain that they shouldn't all be paid the same. The better ones should be paid more than those that do just enough to stay employed.

 

Edited by 02sled

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On December 22, 2017 at 5:59 PM, 1trailmaker said:

all employees have life insurance so they will get at very least that ( 2 years pay approx) 

Hydro One for sure would have had a safety seminar where you show  up and sign in - very common practice to remove any guilt in this case about not wearing seat belts.  Once you sign in or write the test ALL WILL PASS you have agreed you were trained.  

 

The tool bag is of interest, was it not fastened correctly? did it just tear off?  

You will see new rules on carrying equipment on the outside of helicopters from now on

 

Sad for these people, they work hard and do a fantastic job -  This is where you guys fail and call them lazy over paid fucks, this is really sad 

The rule for external loads already exists.  Operators need to follow it.  The final report will detail that.

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1 minute ago, Poncho said:

The rule for external loads already exists.  Operators need to follow it.  The final report will detail that.

And the rules will change now I am betting.

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Just now, 1trailmaker said:

And the rules will change now I am betting.

No

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